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The National for January 24, 2019 — John McCallum, Venezuela and U.S. Government Shutdown


(*) (*)>>Rosemary: ON THIS THURSDAY NIGHT AN AMBASSADOR WALKS BACK CONTENTIOUS COMMENTS BUT KEEPS HIS CHANGE.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: MAKING A CHANGE BE WOULD NOT HELP TO RELEASE THOSE CANADIANS.>>Rosemary: HOW MUCH DAMAGE DID JOHN McCALLUM DO? “AT ISSUE” IS HERE TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN.>>STANDING IN SUPPORT OF AN ILLEGAL COUP IS SHAMEFUL AND UNACCEPTABLE.>>Andrew: HOW THE TURMOIL IN VENEZUELA IS TURNING CANADIAN POLITICS. CAN THE N.D.P. FIND A UNIFIED MESSAGE?>>IT’S A MADE-UP VALUE.>>Ian: AND DOES THE WIND CHILL FACTOR REALLY HELP TO MEASURE HOW COLD IT IS? THE HOTTEST DEBATE OF THE WINTER.>>>THIS IS “THE NATIONAL.” (*)>>>BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH A BREAKING STORY FROM KINGSTON, ONTARIO. THE RCMP AND LOCAL POLICE HAVE RAIDED MULTIPLE RESIDENCES AND HAVE MADE ARRESTS IN WHAT IS BEING CALLED A NATIONAL SECURITY INVESTIGATION. WE’VE BEEN DIGGING FOR THE DETAILS AND SOME ARE EMERGING. LET’S BRING IN OUR NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR CHRIS HALL. CHRIS, WHAT DO WE KNOW TO THIS POINT?>>WELL, IAN, THE INVESTIGATION IS STILL ONGOING AND THERE WAS A BRIEFING ON WHAT THE NEXT STEPS WILL BE. WE KNOW THIS — THAT TWO PEOPLE ARE UNDER ARREST AND ONE IS A MINOR. THERE WERE RAIDS ON A NUMBER OF HOMES AS YOU NOTED IN THE INTRODUCTION. POLICE SAY THAT THE SITUATION IS CONTAINED AND THAT THERE’S NO IMMINENT THREAT TO CANADIANS AND THAT THE THREAT LEVEL FOR THE COUNTRY REMAINS UNCHANGED AT MEDIUM. TONIGHT PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER RALPH GOODALE PUT OUT THIS STATEMENT. HE SAID… “CANADIANS CAN BE CONFIDENT THAT WHENEVER CREDIBLE INFORMATION IS OBTAINED ABOUT A POTENTIAL THREAT, THE RCMP AND C.S.I.S. AND OTHER POLICE AND SECURITY AGENCIES TAKE THE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO ENSURE THE SECURITY OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE SAFETY OF ITS CITIZENS.” NOW AS FOR THIS PARTICULAR INVESTIGATION, CANADIAN OFFICIALS TELL US THAT IT’S BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS AND LED BY THE RCMP IN CONJUNCTION WITH KINGSTON POLICE AND THE F.B.I. THAT THERE WAS AERIAL SURVEILLANCE BY AN RCMP PLANE AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE IT WAS FLYING SO LOW AND IT WAS SO LOUD THAT NEIGHBOURS BEGAN TO COMPLAIN. AND ONE OF THEM TOOK A PHOTO OF IT THAT CAPTURED ON THE RADAR THE CALL LETTERS ON THE BACK OF THE PLANE THAT INDICATED THAT IT WAS AN RCMP PLANE BEING USED IN THIS INVESTIGATION.>>Ian: IMPORTANT TO NOTE AS YOU POINTED OUT THAT THERE’S NO IMMINENT THREAT, SAYS THE GOVERNMENT. BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT HERE?>>Reporter: WELL, THERE’S GOING TO BE A NEWS CONFERENCE ABOUT MID-DAY TOMORROW WHEN WE’LL I ASSUME LEARN WHO IS CHARGED AND THE EXACT NATURE OF THE INVESTIGATION AND WHAT THREATS OR WHAT CONCERNS THERE WERE. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE RCMP IS PLANNING TO PUT OUT ANOTHER RELEASE IN THE MORNING. BUT AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW WE’RE STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT JUST WHAT EXACTLY THE NATURE OF THIS INVESTIGATION IS AND WHAT WAS THE CONCERN THAT LED TO THESE ARRESTS TONIGHT.>>Ian: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU, CHRIS. OUR NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, CHRIS HALL IN OTTAWA. AND, OF COURSE, WE’LL BE FOLLOWING THIS STORY THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT LIGHT HERE ON “THE NATIONAL.”>>Rosemary: CANADA’S AMBASSADOR TO CHINA TOOK BACK REMARKS ABOUT MENG WANZHOU’S EXTRADITION CASE, COMMENTS THAT CAUSED A STIR IN OTTAWA AND IN WASHINGTON AND IN BEIJING. JOHN McCALLUM HAS NOW APOLOGIZED. AND THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THAT HE HAS NO PLANS TO FIRE McCALLUM DESPITE CALLS FOR HIM TO DO JUST THAT.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: AND AS I SAID THAT I THINK THAT MISS MENG HAS QUITE A STRONG CASE.>>>Reporter: OVER 40 MINUTES ON TUESDAY, CANADA’S AMBASSADOR TO CHINA REPEATEDLY ADVOCATED FOR MENG WANZHOU’S RELEASE. NOW HE’S TRYING TO WALK BACK THOSE COMMENTS AND SAYING THAT IT WAS ALL A MISTAKE. IN A STATEMENT JOHN McCALLUM WROTE…>>Reporter: McCALLUM’S EARLIER COMMENTS UNDERMINED THE PRIME MINISTER WHO FOR WEEKS HAS SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE NO POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN MENG’S CASE. STILL, JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS STANDING BY HIS EMBATTLED AMBASSADOR.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: OUR FOCUS IS ENTIRELY ON GETTING THOSE CANADIANS HOME SAFE AND MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED AND I DON’T SEE — AND MAKING A CHANGE WOULD NOT HELP RELEASE THOSE CANADIANS A DAY SOONER.>>Reporter: MENG’S ARREST IN DECEMBER AT THE REQUEST OF THE U.S. HAS TRIGGERED A SEVERE BACKLASH FROM CHINA. TWO CANADIANS HAVE BEEN DETAINED AND A THIRD ORDERED EXECUTED OVER DRUG CHARGES. WHILE THE GOVERNMENT TRIES TO EASE THOSE TENSIONS, CALLS ARE GETTING LOUDER FOR TRUDEAU TO REPLACE McCALLUM.>>BUT WHAT I THINK MIGHT HAPPEN AND SHOULD HAPPEN IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT LOOKS TO ITS BULLPEN AND IT LOOKS TO THE NEXT AMBASSADOR AND THAT MAYBE THERE IS AN EARLY TRANSFER IN THE LATE SPRING OR THE SUMMER.>>Reporter: THE POLITICAL FALLOUT SO FAR IS QUITE HARSH, BUT THIS EXTRADITION EXPERT SAYS THAT FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT THAT IT DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE U.S. CASE AGAINST MENG HAS BEEN TAINTED.>>I THINK THAT IT’S SIMPLY AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING A COMMONSENSICAL VIEW OF THE FACTS AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. IT’S A VERY WEAK EXTRADITION CASE. BUT, OF COURSE, THAT HAS TO BE TESTED IN THE COURT.>>Reporter: CANADA IS NOW WAITING FOR U.S. AUTHORITIES TO FILE THE PROPER PAPERWORK AHEAD OF MENG’S NEXT COURT APPEARANCE IN FEBRUARY. ROSIE?>>Rosemary: ALL RIGHT, KATIE, ARE WE GETTING A SENSE AT THIS POINT WHETHER THE AMERICANS ARE UPSET OR ANGRY ABOUT JOHN McCALLUM’S COMMENTS?>>Reporter: AFTER McCALLUM’S COMMENTS REALLY STARTED PICKING UP TRACTION, A SENIOR SOURCE TELLS ME THAT THE CANADIAN EMBASSY IN WASHINGTON URGENTLY STARTED REACHING OUT TO SENIOR AMERICAN OFFICIALS TO TRY TO REASSURE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT CANADA’S OFFICIAL POSITION HAD NOT CHANGED. EMPHASIZING THAT CANADA IS A RULE OF LAW COUNTRY AND THAT THERE WOULD BE NO POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN THIS CASE. SO FAR THERE ARE NO EXPLICIT COMPLAINTS FROM THE AMERICANS TO REPORT. ROSIE?>>Rosemary: ALL RIGHT, KATIE SIMPSON TRACKING THIS STORY YET AGAIN TONIGHT HERE IN OTTAWA. THANK YOU.>>Reporter: THANKS.>>Rosemary: WE HAVE NEW DETAILS TODAY ON THE CASE OF A CANADIAN SENTENCED TO DEATH LAST WEEK IN CHINA ON DRUG SMUGGLING CHARGES. ROBERT SCHELLENBERG’S LAWYER TOLD CBC NEWS THAT HE’LL APPEAL THAT SENTENCE THIS COMING SUNDAY, ONE DAY BEFORE TIME RUNS OUT. HIS LAWYER SAYS THAT SCHELLENBERG HAS REMAINED CALM SINCE RECEIVING THE VERDICT AND HE WAS ABLE TO MEET CANADIAN CONSULAR OFFICIALS TWO DAYS AGO. THE APPEAL THOUGH COULD TAKE MONTHS. SO WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO HELP THESE CANADIANS IN CHINA? WHAT CAN WE READ INTO McCALLUM’S MIXED MESSAGES? CHANTAL AND ERIC AND ANDREW ARE HERE FOR “AT ISSUE.”>>TO THE U.S. THOUGH WHERE THE ONLY CERTAINTY ON DAY 34 OF THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN STANDOFF IS THAT IT WILL GO INTO A 35th DAY. EVEN AS DONALD TRUMP SEEMED TO SIGNAL A POSSIBLE COMPROMISE ON THAT KEY STICKING POINT — FUNDING FOR THE MEXICO BORDER WALL.>>President Donald Trump: ONE OF THE IDEAS SUGGESTED IS THEY OPEN IT AND THEY PAY SORT OF A PRO–RATED DOWN PAYMENT FOR THE WALL, WHICH I THINK THAT PEOPLE AGREE THAT YOU NEED.>>Rosemary: NANCY PELOSI CALLED IT “UNREASONABLE” SO THE U.S. SENATE VOTED ON TWO COMPETING BILLS TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT — ONE DEMOCRATIC AND ONE REPUBLICAN. BOTH OF THEM THOUGH DEFEATED. AND AS KEITH BOAG TELLS US, CONCERNS ARE MOUNTING THAT GETTING A DEAL TO FLY COULD BE A MATTER OF LIFE-AND-DEATH.>>Reporter: AFTER 34 DAYS, AIR SAFETY IS A MAIN TALKING POINT –>>WHEN DO WE WANT IT?>>NOW!>>Reporter: — IN THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.>>NO ONE WILL GET OUT OF THIS UNSCATHED IF WE DO NOT STOP THIS SHUTDOWN.>>Reporter: THE PRESIDENT OF THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS’ ASSOCIATION IS WARNING SOMETHING TRAGIC COULD HAPPEN IF THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SOON RETURNED TO ITS FULLY UPRIGHT POSITION.>>LEADER McCONNELL, YOU CAN FIX THIS TODAY.>>Reporter: SEVERAL POLLS HAVE FOUND THAT AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY BLAME MITCH McCONNELL’S SENATE REPUBLICANS AND PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR THE SHUTDOWN. THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS AND THE PILOTS AND AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AND THE AIRPORT SECURITY PEOPLE ALL WARNING THAT THE SHUTDOWN ENDANGERS THE PUBLIC. AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HASN’T HELPED ITSELF BY SOUNDING DEAF TO THE OTHER REALITIES OF ORDINARY LIVES MUCH.>>AM I OUT OF TOUCH? I DON’T THINK THAT I’M OUT OF TOUCH. I AM ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM. I HAVE MET WITH MY INDIVIDUAL STAFF MEMBERS AND, GOD BLESS THEM, THEY’RE WORKING FOR FREE THEY’RE VOLUNTEERING.>>Reporter: MR. SECRETARY, THERE ARE SOME REPORTS THAT THERE’S SOME FEDERAL WORKERS GOING TO HOMELESS SHELTERS TO GET FOOD?>>WELL, I KNOW THEY ARE AND I DON’T REALLY QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY. THERE IS NO REAL REASON WHY THEY SHOULDN’T BE ABLE TO GET A LOAN AGAINST IT.>>Reporter: ALL OF THAT HAD THE TOP DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE REFERENCING MARIE ANTOINETTE.>>IS THIS THEM “LET THEM EAT CAKE” ATTITUDE? OR CALL YOUR FATHER FOR MONEY?>>Reporter: THE SENATE DEFEATED TWO BILLS TO RE-OPEN THE GOVERNMENT THIS AFTERNOON BUT THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT HE HAD EXPECTED THAT.>>President Donald Trump: I HAVE OTHER ALTERNATIVES IF I HAVE TO AND I WILL USE THOSE ALTERNATIVES IF I HAVE TO.>>Reporter: CNN IS REPORTING TONIGHT THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS ALREADY DRAFTED A PROCLAMATION DECLARING A NATIONAL EMERGENCY AT THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER AND A PLAN, TO BY-PASS GOVERNMENT AND TO DIVERT $7 BILLION FROM VARIOUS GOVERNMENT OFFICES TO BUILD A WALL. TOMORROW THE ALREADY RECORD LONG SHUTDOWN WILL SET A NEW RECORD. KEITH BOAG, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Rosemary: SO WHILE PARALYSIS CONTINUES IN WASHINGTON, ANDREW, IT SEEMS THAT THERE’S A NEW KIND OF STALEMATE TONIGHT IN VENEZUELA?>>Andrew: YEAH, ROSIE, BUT IT’S HARD TO KNOW WHICH WAY IT WILL TIP. IT’S BEEN A DAY SINCE TENS OF THOUSANDS TOOK TO THE STREETS AND THE OPPOSITION LEADER DECLARED HIMSELF PRESIDENT BUT NICOLÁS MADURO REMAINS IN CHARGE. MILITARY MEMBERS ARE FIRMLY BEHIND HIM. AND HIS RIVAL, THE MAN WHO WOULD BE PRESIDENT, JUAN GUIADÓ, IS OFF THE RADAR AND APPARENTLY FEARING ARREST. THE REST OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING CANADA, HAS CHOSEN SIDES IN THIS STANDOFF AND WE’LL EXPLAIN WHICH SIDES AND WHY. BUT FIRST WE TURN TO PAUL HUNTER WHO TAKES US INSIDE OF A COUNTRY DIVIDED, UNCERTAIN AND UNEASY.>>Reporter: THE REMNANTS OF YESTERDAY’S MEGA-ANTI-GOVERNMENT DEMONSTRATIONS IN CARACAS — BURNT VEHICLES, SHATTERED STOREFRONTS AND EVER LINGERING FURY AND FRUSTRATION.>>[SPEAKING SPANISH]>>Reporter: THE COUNTRY IS WAKING UP SAD TODAY, SAID THIS MAN. MOST VENEZUELANS SAY THAT MADURO IS ILLEGITIMATE. NICOLAS MADURO REMAINS THE PRESIDENT TODAY, AT LEAST IN HIS EYES, BUT FOR COUNTLESS WHO DEEM HIS ELECTION LAST YEAR RIGGED, WHO BLAME HIM FOR THE COUNTRY’S EXTREME ECONOMIC MISERY, THE KEY MOMENT IN YESTERDAY’S PROTESTS WHEN THE OPPOSITION LEADER JUAN GUIADÓ DECLARED HIMSELF ACTING PRESIDENT. QUICKLY RECOGNISED BY CANADA, THE U.S. AND OTHERS, BUT SIGNIFICANTLY NOT BY VENEZUELA’S POWERFUL MILITARY. ON VENEZUELAN TV TODAY MULTIPLE PLEDGES OF SUPPORT FOR MADURO. SAID THE DEFENCE MINISTER…>>[SPEAKING SPANISH]>>Reporter: WE ARE HERE TO AVOID CONFRONTATION. THIS IS AS TENSIONS WITH THE U.S. GROW. VENEZUELA TODAY CLOSED ALL OF ITS DIPLOMATIC OFFICES IN THE U.S. AND THE WHITE HOUSE HAS MADE CLEAR TODAY, LABELLING HIM PROFOUNDLY CORRUPT THAT IT WANTS MADURO GONE. THE QUESTION IS HOW.>>President Donald Trump: WE HAVE WORKED CLOSELY ON VENEZUELA. VERY CLOSELY.>>Reporter: DONALD TRUMP HAS NOT RULED OUT MILITARY ACTION BUT FOR NOW THE FOCUS IS ECONOMIC PRESSURE, INCLUDING DIVERTING MONEY FOR VENEZUELAN OIL AWAY FROM MADURO AND INTO THE HANDS OF GUIADÓ, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE.>>WE THINK THAT CONSISTENT WITH OUR RECOGNITION OF JUAN GUIADÓ AS THE CONSTITUTIONAL INTERIM PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA THAT THOSE REVENUES SHOULD GO TO THE LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT.>>Reporter: MEANWHILE THOSE PROTESTS YESTERDAY UNDERLINE THE REAL FEAR IN CARACAS TONIGHT THAT ALL OF THIS MAY SOON ONLY GET WORSE. PAUL HUNTER, CBC NEWS, WASHINGTON.>>Andrew: NOW MANY COUNTRIES HAVE PICKED THEIR SIDE IN THE VENEZUELAN CRISIS — RUSSIA, TURKEY, SYRIA, CHINA. THEY ALL CONTINUE TO BACK NICOLAS MADURO. MEXICO’S GOVERNMENT DOES AS WELL FOR THE TIME BEING, ACCORDING TO ITS STATEMENT. ON THE OTHER SIDE, CANADA, THE U.S. AND SEVERAL COUNTRIES THROUGHOUT LATIN AMERICA, THEY OPENLY SUPPORT JUAN GUIADÓ. THE EUROPEAN UNION IS MORE CAUTIOUS, NOT BACKING GUIADÓ EXPLICITLY BUT INSTEAD SAYING THEY SUPPORT THE COUNTRY’S NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND DEMOCRATIC FORCES IN THE COUNTRY. NOW CANADA’S DECLARATION OF SUPPORT FOR GUIADÓ WAS SWIFT, UNEQUIVOCAL, AND CONTENTIOUS. BECAUSE SOME ARE WONDERING WHY HIM, WHAT CLAIM DOES HE REALLY HAVE? EVAN DYER EXPLORES HOW THAT DECISION WAS MADE.>>Reporter: CANADA SAYS THAT GUIADÓ HAS MORE LEGITIMACY THAN THE GOVERNMENT REPRESENTED IN EMBASSY BECAUSE HE’S THE MOST SENIOR ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE COUNTRY THAT CAN TRACE HIS MANDATE BACK TO THE MORE OR LESS FREE ELECTION. THAT VOTE PRODUCED A LARGE OPPOSITION MAJORITY, AND THE OPPOSITION FOUND ITS VICTORY AT THE POLLS WAS SHORT-LIVED. THE MADURO GOVERNMENT WAS NOT WILLING TO LIVE WITH THE LEGISLATURE. THEY STRIPPED THE ASSEMBLY OF ITS POWER. AND THE AMBASSADOR AT CARACAS AT THE TIME? …>>VENEZUELA HAS NOT HAD A CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER SINCE ABOUT JULY 2017 WHEN THE PRESIDENT — PRESIDENT MADURO SUSPENDED THE EXISTING CONSTITUTION BY CREATING ANOTHER BODY AND GIVING THEM ABSOLUTE POWERS.>>Reporter: MADURO HAD ANOTHER PROBLEM TO FIX — HIS OWN TERM AS PRESIDENT WAS ENDING.>>SO HE ESSENTIALLY DIRECTED HIS OWN RE-ELECTION IN 2018. AND THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE DIDN’T BUY IT. THEY DIDN’T EVEN SHOW UP IN THE POLLS. THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE 20% TURNOUT BECAUSE IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY A FARCE TO THE PEOPLE OF VENEZUELA.>>Reporter: THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT IF THE PRESIDENCY IS VACANT THE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TAKES OVER UNTIL NEW ELECTIONS. THAT IS JUAN GUIADÓ. THAT IS WHERE GUIADÓ IS PRESENTING A PROBLEM FOR THE N.D.P.>>THIS GUY WHO SHOWS UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SQUARE AND SAYS I AM NOW THE PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA — I MEAN, THIS IS ABSURD AND IT IS OFFENSIVE. AND I’M ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT THAT IT’S JUST ONE MORE IN A LONG LITANY OF ATTEMPTS BY THE UNITED STATES TO RUN THE SHOW. THEY’VE GOT SOME OF THE BIGGEST OIL RESERVES IN THE WORLD IN VENEZUELA. IS THAT PART OF WHAT’S GOING ON? YOU BET IT IS.>>Reporter: N.D.P. LEADER JAGMEET SINGH SENT OUT A NONCOMMITTAL MESSAGE THAT DIDN’T ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF WHOM CANADA SHOULD RECOGNIZE. BUT M.P.s AND CANDIDATES WERE ALREADY GOING ROGUE. THEY WERE TWEETING OUT MESSAGES OF HANDS OFF VENEZUELA. BY DAY’S END THE PARTY CLARIFIED THEY CONSIDER MADURO A THUG BUT WOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO RECOGNIZE HIM. EVAN DYER, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.>>Andrew: FOR ALL OF THOSE COUNTRIES TAKING SIDE, LOTS AREN’T AND JUST LOOK FOR THE SUPPORT FOR REGIME CHANGE IN THAT COUNTRY. IT’S MESSY. AND WASHINGTON SUPPORTED HIM, AND A POPULAR COUP SENT THEM PACKING TO MIAMI AND BROUGHT DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT TO VENEZUELA. AND IN THE 1990s, THE ELECTED GOVERNMENT’S AUSTERITY PROGRAMMES WERE DEEPLY UNPOPULAR. A LITTLE KNOWN MILITARY OFFICER AT THE TIME BY THE NAME OF HUGO CHAVEZ TRIED AND FAILED TO SEIZE POWER IN 1992. THE U.S. OPPOSED THAT COUP.>>THIS MILITARY COUP ATTEMPT IS FIRMLY CONDEMNED.>>Andrew: A DECADE LATER CHAVEZ WAS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA. HE WAS POPULAR BUT DIVISIVE. TOP MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY STAGED A COUP BUT WITHIN HOURS LOWER-RANKING OFFICERS HELPED TO RESTORE HIM TO POWER.>>[SPEAKING SPANISH]>>Andrew: THIS TIME AROUND THE U.S. WOULD HAVE CLEARLY PREFERRED THAT THE COUP SUCCEED.>>THE CHAVEZ GOVERNMENT PROVOKED THIS CRISIS.>>Andrew: WITH CHAVEZ THEN, AND MADURO NOW, FOREIGN SUPPORT FOR CHANGE WILL LIKELY ONLY GO SO FAR. IT’S WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OF THE COUNTRY THAT WILL BE DECISIVE. AND ONE LAST NOTE ON THIS, JUAN GUIADÓ DID SPEAK TODAY FROM AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION. FOR THOSE WILLING TO ABANDON MADURO HE PROMISED AMNESTY.>>Ian: WE’RE LIVE HERE TONIGHT ON “THE NATIONAL,” FOLLOWING A NUMBER OF DEVELOPING STORIES. OFFICIALS ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CAUSED A DOZEN PASSENGERS TO FALL ILL AFTER BOARDING A PLANE IN QUÉBEC CITY THIS MORNING. THERE WERE 185 PASSENGERS ON BOARD THE FLIGHT BOUND FOR FLORIDA. IT WAS STILL ON THE GROUND BEING DE-ICED WHEN SOMETHING WENT WRONG WITH THE VENTILATION SYSTEM. 12 PEOPLE STARTED FEELING SICK AND SOME WERE NAUSEOUS AND VOMITING. AND OTHERS SAID THAT THEIR EYES AND THROATS WERE BURNING. THE PLANE WAS EVACUATED AND 10 PASSENGERS WERE SENT TO HOSPITAL. THE AIRLINE SAYS THAT IT’S INVESTIGATING.>>>A MANHUNT UNDERWAY IN MONTRÉAL TONIGHT FOLLOWING THE FATAL SHOOTING OF A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER LINKED TO THE MAFIA. IT HAPPENED THIS MORNING AT A BUILDING UNDER CONSTRUCTION. POLICE HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED THE VICTIM BUT MULTIPLE SOURCES HAVE TOLD CBC THAT IT WAS TONY MAGI. HE’S SURVIVED NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS ON HIS LIFE BEFORE, INCLUDING A SHOOTING IN 2008. NO ARRESTS HAVE BEEN MADE.>>Andrew: AHEAD TONIGHT ON “THE NATIONAL”… WE WILL CONTINUE OUR SERIES ON SLEEP WITH A SOLUTION IF YOU’RE TOSSING AND TURNING. YOU WILL MEET A CANADIAN WRITER WHO VERY MUCH WANTS HIS STORIES TO PUT YOU TO SLEEP.>>Rosemary: OH, EXCELLENT. FIRST THOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO THE FORECAST DO YOU RELY ON THE WIND CHILL TO FIGURE OUT HOW COLD IT’S GOING TO BE? WHY SOME METEROLOGISTS SAY THAT’S NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. WHATEVER!>>Ian: AND A TERRIFYING MORNING FOR A FAMILY IN TORONTO. THEY WOKE UP TO FIND THEIR BASEMENT APARTMENT WAS FLOODING. THE WATER WAS RISING FAST.>>AND WE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO. MY DAUGHTER, SHE CRIED OUT, THERE’S WATER IN THE HOUSE. BY THE TIME SHE CRIED THAT THE WATER REACHED (*)>>Andrew: WELL, YOUR TYPICAL JANUARY ALWAYS HAS PLENTY OF WAYS TO MAKE LIFE MISERABLE, RIGHT? BUT ONE TORONTO FAMILY IN PARTICULAR HAS BEEN THROUGH A WRINGER AFTER A BROKEN WATER MAIN EFFECTIVELY TURNED THEIR HOME INTO A SINKING SHIP.>>I SEE MY KIDS’ LIVES IN FRONT OF ME, JUST TAKEN AWAY FROM ME. I DON’T KNOW, I’M SO TRAUMATIZED RIGHT NOW.>>Andrew: THE GILBERTS LIVE IN THE BASEMENT APARTMENT OF A WEST END HIGH RISE AND WHEN THEIR HOME SUDDENLY FLOODED OVERNIGHT THEY WERE LUCKY TO ESCAPE BECAUSE THEY HAD NO IDEA THAT IT WAS EVEN HAPPENING UNTIL TINA GILBERT GOT UP TO USE THE BATHROOM AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING.>>IT WAS COLD AND THE WATER WAS RIGHT HERE WHEN I WOKE UP.>>Andrew: THE ADULTS WERE ABLE TO GET TO THE CHILDREN’S ROOM AND WAKE THEM UP BUT NOT BEFORE THE WATER HIT WAIST LEVEL, FORCING THE ENTIRE FAMILY TO WRIGGLE OUT THROUGH A STREET LEVEL WINDOW.>>WHEN WE ARRIVED WE COULDN’T EVEN OPEN UP THE DOOR BECAUSE THE WATER LEVEL WAS SO HIGH IN THE APARTMENT THAT THE PRESSURE WAS KEEPING THE DOOR CLOSED.>>Andrew: HAD THE CREWS NOT QUICKLY CUT THE POWER THE FAMILY COULD HAVE BEEN ELECTROCUTED.>>BUT WE ARE OUT WITH OUR LIFE. WE ARE HERE, YEAH, THAT IS IT.>>Andrew: THE FAMILY HAS A TEMPORARY UNIT TO STAY IN BUT NOW THEY’RE WEIGHING THEIR OPTIONS. NOW TORONTONIANS ARE FAR FROM THE ONLY ONES STRUGGLING WITH MISERABLE WEATHER. MONTRÉALERS COULD HARDLY KEEP THEIR HEADS ABOVE WATER, SO TO SPEAK. AFTER A WINTER THAW, DOZENS OF SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED WHILE THE WORKERS TRIED TO CLEAR THE SLUSHY WATER. DRIVING WAS ESPECIALLY TRICKY, EVEN FOR LARGE TRANSIT VEHICLES. AND IT’S ALL EXPECTED TO TAKE ANOTHER PUNISHING TURN TOMORROW. FROM A HIGH OF 3° TODAY THE TEMPERATURE IS EXPECTED TO DROP TO ABOUT -17° WITH THE WIND CHILL. WHICH WILL TURN ALL OF THIS BACK INTO ICE, CREATING MORE CHAOS AND MAYBE MORE SCHOOL CLOSURES. NOW ABOUT THAT WIND CHILL, WE ALL KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT WHATEVER THE TEMPERATURE IS, THAT THE WIND CAN MAKE IT FEEL COLDER. IT’S BEEN IN PLACE FOR ALMOST TWO DECADES AND IT’S A WAY TO GET A BETTER SENSE OF HOW MANY EXTRA LAYERS THAT WE SHOULD PUT ON WHEN WE GO OUTSIDE. BUT AS CAMERON MacINTOSH EXPLAINS, SOME EXPERTS SAY THAT IT’S INACCURATE AND MISLEADING.>>Reporter: ON A BRIGHT AND COLD WINTER DAY WHEN MOST ARE HAPPY TO BE INSIDE… GERLENE KARR IS LEARNING TO SKATE IN THE DEAD OF HER FIRST CANADIAN WINTER. HOW COLD ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?>>IT’S VERY COLD.>>Reporter: WHAT IS THE TEMPERATURE?>> -27°.>>Reporter: CLOSE, -26°. THE FIRST RULE OF LIFE IN A REAL WINTER CITY? CHECK THE FORECAST.>>AS LONG AS YOU’RE DRESSED APPROPRIATELY IT’S GREAT.>>Reporter: HERE AT THE FORKS IN WINNIPEG, ENVIRONMENT CANADA’S WEATHER STATION IS READING A TEMPERATURE RIGHT NOW OF -26°. HOWEVER, THERE’S ANOTHER NUMBER THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON -33°. THAT’S THE WIND CHILL, A MEASURE THAT MANY METEROLOGISTS JUST AREN’T COMFORTABLE WITH.>>WIND CHILL IS NOT ACTUALLY MEASURABLE. WIND CHILL IS DERIVED FROM THE TEMPERATURE MEASUREMENT AND THE WIND MEASUREMENT. SO IT’S A MADE-UP VALUE.>>Reporter: WIND CHILL IS A COMPLEX EQUATION FACTORING WIND CHILL AND TEMPERATURE, WITH A HEAT LOSS THAT OFTEN SOUNDS MUCH COLDER THAN IT ACTUALLY IS.>>* 15 BELOW >>Reporter: SO CONTRARY TO FOLKLORE AND RANDY BACHMANN, PORTAGE AND MAIN MAY FEEL LIKE -50° BUT IT’S NEVER HIT ACTUALLY -50°. METEROLOGIST SCOTT KEHLER IS CALLING FOR A DIFFERENT MEASURE.>>THE TIME THAT IT TAKES SKIN TO FREEZE IS MAKING MORE SENSE.>>Reporter: ENVIRONMENT CANADA’S DAVID PHILLIPS ARGUES THAT IT’S RELATABLE. THERE’S JUST SOMETHING ABOUT -38°.>>TO ME THAT WILL SCARE THE BEJEEBIES OUT OF PEOPLE. AND WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND PROVIDE CANADIANS WITH MAYBE AN IMPERFECT BUT A USEFUL MEASURE SO IT ALLOWS THEM TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION.>>Reporter: IN KAUR’S CASE, THAT MEANS WEARING MORE CLOTHES THAN, WELL, EVER. AND FOCUSING ON THE SKATING LESSON RATHER THAN A SCIENCE LESSON. AFTER ALL, AT SOME POINT COLD IS JUST COLD. CAMERON MacINTOSH, CBC NEWS, WINNIPEG.>>Ian: I DON’T KNOW WHERE THAT LEAVES US. I HAVE BEEN IN -30° WITH WIND AND WITHOUT WIND AND IT’S DIFFERENT WITH WIND. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW IT MEASURE THAT.>>Andrew: WELL, COLD IS JUST COLD, I THINK HE GOT IT RIGHT.>>Ian: AHEAD ON “THE NATIONAL”… IT TURNS OUT ASK AND YOU YOU JUST MIGHT RECEIVE. HOW A HALIFAX MAN LANDED ON STAGE WITH BRYAN ADAMS LAST NIGHT.>>Rosemary: COOL. FIRST THOUGH IT’S “AT ISSUE” NIGHT, AND ANDREW AND CHANTAL AND ERIC ARE ALL HERE WITH JOHN McCALLUM’S MIXED MESSAGES ON CHINA. THAT’S RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK. (*) (*)>>Ian: WE’RE LIVE ON “THE NATIONAL” WITH AN UPDATE ON NORTHERN CALIFORNIA’S DEADLY WILDFIRES. INVESTIGATORS SAY THAT A PRIVATE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM IS TO BLAME FOR THE TUBBS FIRE THAT KILLED 22 PEOPLE AND CHARRED NEARLY 15,000 HECTARES. THAT IS GOOD NEWS FOR THE BELEAGUERED FACILITY, PACIFIC GAS AND ELECTRIC, THAT HAS BEEN LINKED TO 17 OTHER BLAZES ACROSS THE STATE THAT YEAR AND IT MAY FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY.>>I AM INNOCENT OF ANY CRIMINALITY WHATSOEVER.>>Ian: SCOTLAND’S FORMER FIRST MINISTER ALEX SALMOND IS CHARGED WITH MULTIPLE SEX OFFENSES, INCLUDING ATTEMPTED RAPE. THE 64-YEAR-OLD LED THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT FOR SEVEN YEARS AND WAS A DRIVING FORCE BEHIND SCOTLAND’S 2014 BID FOR INDEPENDENCE. SALMOND HAS BEEN UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR MONTHS FOLLOWING ALLEGATIONS THAT HE INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCHED FEMALE GOVERNMENT STAFFERS. (*)>>I THINK THAT MISS MENG HAS QUITE A STRONG CASE. I NEVER EXPECTED THAT WE WOULD HAVE THIS PROBLEM THROWN AT US.>>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: OUR FOCUS IS ENTIRELY ON GETTING THOSE CANADIANS HOME SAFE AND MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF THEIR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED.>>Andrew Scheer: IF I WERE PRIME MINISTER I WOULD HAVE FIRED JOHN McCALLUM.>>Rosemary: OKAY, MIXED MESSAGES ON CHINA. CANADA’S AMBASSADOR MAKES BOLD STATEMENTS AS YOU HEARD THERE AND THEN TAKES THEM BACK. SO DID JOHN McCALLUM GO ROGUE? AND HOW ARE THESE BIG ISSUES LIKE THAT THIS FEUD WITH CHINA CONTINUING TO MAKE LIFE DIFFICULT FOR THE GOVERNMENT? “AT ISSUE” IS HERE TO TACKLE THESE QUESTIONS AND MORE, CHANTAL HEBERT IS IN MONTRÉAL, AND ANDREW COYNE IS IN OTTAWA TONIGHT. AND ÉRIC GRENIER IS ALSO IN OTTAWA. OKAY, LET’S START WITH JOHN McCALLUM AND THE APOLOGY. I JUST WANT TO READ VIEWERS A PART OF IT THAT STRUCK ME. HERE’S WHAT HE SAID IN HIS STATEMENT. HE SAYS, “I MISSPOKE. THESE COMMENTS DO NOT ACCURATELY REPRESENT MY POSITION ON THIS ISSUE. AS THE GOVERNMENT HAS CONSISTENTLY MADE CLEAR, THERE HAS BEEN NO POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT IN THIS PROCESS.” UM, ANDREW, DO YOU BUY THAT?>>WELL, IT’S DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT IT DOESN’T REPRESENT HIS POSITION. I SUPPOSE THE QUESTION IS DOES IT REPRESENT THE GOVERNMENT’S POSITION? THERE’S THREE POSSIBILITIES HERE. ONE IS THAT HE WAS COMPLETELY GOING ROGUE AND AT ODDS WITH THE GOVERNMENT. AND THE SECOND IS THAT HE WAS SPEAKING FOR GOVERNMENT AND THIS IS THE MESSAGE THAT THEY INTENDED TO HAVE. AND THEY NOW DENY THAT. AND THIS IS SOMETHING IN THE GOVERNMENT’S THINKING THEY RATHER NOT TO BE DISCUSSED PUBLICLY. I THINK THAT IS WORTH CONTINUING TO EXPLORE. IF THE SUGGESTION — LEAVE ASIDE THE IMPUNING THE INTEGRITY OF THE — OF THE EXTRADITION PROCESS AND SEEMING TO LINE UP WITH THE ARGUMENTS OF THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, EVEN AS THEY’RE HOLDING THREE CANADIAN HOSTAGES. IF THE SUGGESTION WAS — AND I THINK THAT IT WAS — THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY AFTER THE COURT HAS RULED AND WHEN IT COMES ACROSS THE MINISTER’S DESK WHO HAS FINAL SAY ON THE EXTRADITION TREATY THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME DEAL THAT WE’D BE WILLING TO STRIKE WHERE WE WOULD REFUSE TO EXTRADITE — OR THOUGH SHE WAS OTHERWISE WORTHY TO BE EXTRADITED, SOLELY TO GET THOSE HOSTAGES BACK — THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE DOING THE DEAL UNDER THE THREAT. THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE PAYING RANSOM FOR HOSTAGES, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I DON’T THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DOING. SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE STILL MORE QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED HERE WHO HE WAS SPEAKING FOR HERE.>>Rosemary: JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHEN ANDREW IS TALKING ABOUT HOSHOSTAGES, HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE TWO MEN DETAINED UNDER CHARGES THAT WE DO NOT KNOW. THERE’S BEEN NO DUE PROCESS. AND THEN A THIRD MAN WHO HAS NOW BEEN SENTENCED TO DEATH IN THAT CASE FOR DRUG TRAFFICKING. CHANTAL, YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON ALL OF THIS?>>I TEND TO BELIEVE THAT McCALLUM WENT OFF MESSAGE, THAT THE WHOLE WORLD WAS SHOCKED THAT HE WAS ON A MISSION TO SAY THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE THE DECKS ARE NOT STACKED AGAINST THE PERSON THAT IS BEING ASKED TO BE EXTRADITED. BUT THAT HE GOT CARRIED AWAY AND UNVEILED HIS CARDS. THE REASON THAT I DON’T BUY THAT HE WAS ON A MISSION TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT HE’S NOW WALKING BACK IS THAT THIS IS THE KIND OF THING AS AN AMBASSADOR THAT SPEAKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA HE COULD HAVE SAID PRIVATELY TO THE CHINESE AUTHORITIES. HE DID NOT NEED TO GO TO MARKHAM TO CALL IN SOME CHINESE SPEAKING REPORTERS TO, TA-DA, UNVEIL THIS POSITION. IT MAY REFLECT SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA IS READY TO DO, BUT IN ANY EVENT, THE VENUE DOES NOT SUGGEST THAT THAT IS WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.>>Rosemary: IN THE VERY LEAST IT REFLECTS HOW DIFFICULT THE FILE IS, ERIC, THAT YOU CAN’T, YOU KNOW, THAT IF YOU MAKE ONE MIS-STEP ON THESE ISSUES WITH CHINA THAT YOU CAN BE IN BIG TROUBLE?>>YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND WHEN I LOOK AT AN ISSUE LIKE THIS I TEND TO SEE IT AS I SEE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THROUGH THE PRISM OF THE UPCOMING ELECTION. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE DOMESTIC CONSIDERATIONING THAT MIGHT HAVE GONE THROUGH McCALLUM’S DECISION TO DO THIS, AND GO ROGUE AS ANDREW SAID, IS ONE OF THE POSSIBILITIES. OR IF THIS WAS SOMEHOW IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GOVERNMENT OR THE LIBERAL PARTY, YOU KNOW, FOR McCALLUM TO INVITE CHINESE-LANGUAGE MEDIA BOTH FROM CHINA AND FROM CANADA, AND TO GO TO MARKHAM, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A MEDIA OUTLET AND THOSE MEDIA OUTLETS HAVE A HUGE REACH ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND THE CHINESE-CANADIAN COMMUNITY IS AN IMPORTANT ELECTORATE FOR THE LIBERALS AND FOR THE CONSERVATIVES. THERE ARE 19 RIDINGS WHERE THEY MAKE UP AT LEAST 20% OF THE POPULATION. THEY’RE ALL IN THE BATTLE GROUNDS IN VANCOUVER AND TORONTO. JOHN McCALLUM BECAUSE HE WAS A FORMER LIBERAL M.P. FOR THE MARKHAM AREA HE HAS A LOT OF CREDIBILITY ON THIS FILE. AND HE’S NOT ONLY SOMEBODY WHO IS SPEAKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT BUT SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE SEEN AS SPEAKING AS A LIBERAL. NOT JUST AS SOME PUBLIC SERVANT. SO I THINK THAT THAT CONSIDERATION HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL. THAT McCALLUM MIGHT HAVE FELT OR THE LIBERALS MIGHT HAVE FELT THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN COMING OFF AS SYMPATHETIC TO MISS MENG’S PLIGHT. AND FOR A LOT OF VOTERS, CHINESE-CANADIANS THAT DO NOT HAVE A UNIFORM VIEW ON THIS, THAT MISS MENG WAS PUT SOMEHOW IN THE MIDDLE MUCH A SPAT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CHINA. THAT THEY ARE INDICATING THAT THE GOVERNMENT UNDERSTOOD THAT.>>I DON’T DOUBT FOR A SECOND THAT McCALLUM MUST HAVE RUN THROUGH HIS MEETING WITH THOSE JOURNALISTS SOMEWHERE. BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY — AND I’M NOT TERRIBLY FASCINATED BY HOW THE ELECTORAL CALCULATIONS OF THE LIBERALS ON THIS, EXCEPT TO NOTE THAT A WEEK AFTER THEY LOST THE CANDIDATE TO APPEALING TO A SPECIFIC COMMUNITY, IT’S A BIT RICH TO THEN GO BACK TO THE ELECTORAL DRAWING BOARD AND USE YOUR AMBASSADOR WHO IS THE POINTS PERSON IN A MAJOR FOREIGN POLICY DISPUTE TO SPREAD THE GOOD WORD OF THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT. BUT I AM INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION OF WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT JOHN McCALLUM THE AMBASSADOR, THAT HE CANNOT FULFILL A MISSION AND NOT CROSS THE LINE IN A BRIEFING WITH JOURNALISTS IN MARKHAM?>>WE PAY DIPLOMATS TO BE DISCREET. I THINK WHAT IS AS SIGNIFICANT AS TO WHO WAS INVITED IS WHO WASN’T INVITED WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NATIONAL MEDIA. AND WHY EXACTLY — I DON’T KNOW — BUT THAT’S ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I THINK HAS TO BE ANSWERED IN THIS AFFAIR. WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, WHAT HE INTENDED TO SIGNAL IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION. I THINK THAT CHANTAL MAKES A GOOD CASE THAT MAYBE HE WASN’T INTENDING TO SIGNAL AS MUCH AS HE DID. BUT WHAT HE UNINTENTIONALLY SIGNALLED IS ALSO IMPORTANT. WHAT IT SIGNALS ABOUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS THINKING IS SIGNIFICANT AND WORTH DIGGING INTO. BUT ALSO WHAT UNINTENDED SIGNAL THIS MIGHT BE SENDING TO THE CHINESE. WHAT IS REALLY WORRISOME WITH ME ON THIS IS WHEN YOU HAVE THESE REALLY TENSION SITUATIONS — I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO CALLS THESE PEOPLES HOSTAGES, IT’S THE CONSENSUS OF THE FOREIGN POLICY COMMUNITY THAT THESE — THIS IS ESSENTIALLY HOSTAGE DIPLOMACY THAT CHINA IS PRACTISING. IT’S AT SUCH A MOMENT TO SEND SUCH CONFUSED SIGNALS FROM THE GOVERNMENT ADVERTENTLY OR INADVERTENTLY IS REALLY TROUBLESOME. AND IF HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORIZATION TO SAY ANY OF THIS, THAT’S TROUBLESOME IN ONE WAY. AND IF HE DID IT ON HIS OWN, THAT IS ALSO TROUBLESOME AND IT CERTAINLY CALLS INTO QUESTION WHETHER HE SHOULD BE OUR AMBASSADOR TO CHINA.>>Rosemary: SO THE RETRACTION, IS THAT ENOUGH TO PUT THINGS RIGHT HERE AND CAN HE GO BACK TO CHINA AND RETURN TO THE WORK THAT HE WAS DOING TO TRY TO GET THESE CANADIANS RELEASED? ERIC, YOU GO FIRST.>>WELL, I MEAN, I REALLY CAN’T SAY IF IT WILL BE ENOUGH. WHEN YOU SEE HOW GOVERNMENT WAS REACTING FIRST TO McCALLUM’S COMMENTS WHERE IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET A STATEMENT OUT OF THE PRIME MINISTER WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT IT. WHEN WE SAW HIM, I BELIEVE THAT IT WAS EARLIER TODAY, NOT EXACTLY GIVING McCALLUM A COMPLETE SUPPORT. IT SUGGESTED THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS STILL PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT THIS. AND TO SAY THAT HE MISSPOKE WHEN HE WENT ON — IT WAS A 40-MINUTE SESSION WITH THE MEDIA, I MEAN, IT’S HARD TO — IT’S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT McCALLUM HIMSELF WOULD HAVE BEEN, UM, REALLY THE ONE WHO REALLY WANTED TO GET OUT THERE AND MAKE THIS STATEMENT.>>Rosemary: YEAH, I MEAN, I CAN’T REMEMBER — I MEAN, MY MEMORY IS PROBABLY NOT AS GOOD AS EVERYONE ELSE’S — BUT I CAN’T REMEMBER A TIME THAT AN AMBASSADOR HAD TO DO THAT KIND OF THING — TO WALK BACK PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AN ISSUE THAT IS THIS DELICATE WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY. THAT SEEMS TO ME PRETTY INCREDIBLE.>>AND IF THIS IS THE PREVIEW — AND I DON’T KNOW — BUT IF THIS THE PREVIEW OF THE PRETEXT OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MAKE FOR THE MINISTER NIXING THE EXTRADITION, OH, THAT WE DON’T SUPPORT THE SANCTIONS PROCESS, FOR EXAMPLE –>>Rosemary: RIGHT, FOR THE JUSTICE MINISTER AT THE END OF THE EXTRADITION PROCESS TO SIGN OFF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, YEP.>>BUT THAT’S THE OTHER THING. IS THAT THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE AMBASSADOR WAS TROTTING OUT HERE ARE THIN AND CONTENTIOUS AT BEST. I THINK THAT I LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT THEY DON’T ACTUALLY STAND UP TO ANALYSIS. THEY’RE ARGUABLE BUT NOT AIRTIGHT BY ANY MEANS. IF THESE ARE THE ARGUMENTS TO COVER UP WHAT WOULD BE A FAIRLY TRANSPARENT DEAL THEN THAT DOESN’T SPEAK WELL TO THIS GOVERNMENT’S REASONING OR ITS UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW FOR ITSELF, FOR EXAMPLE.>>IT ALSO PUTS THE NEW JUSTICE MINISTER — LUCKY HIM — MR. LAMETTI, IN A MORE DIFFICULT POSITION. IT’S GOING TO BE AWFULLY HARD WHICHEVER WAY HE COMES DOWN NOW TO CONTINUE TO ARGUE THAT THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL DECISION. THAT HE’S ONLY FOLLOWING THE PROCESS. AND THAT NOW THAT THE COURTS HAVE SAID THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND SAID YES TO THE U.S. APPLICATION FOR EXTRADITION, THEN HE CAN’T SEE A REASON NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH IT. OR IN THE REVERSE, BLOCKING IT. THESE WORDS WILL CONTINUE TO HANG OVER WHATEVER HAPPENS AT THE END OF THAT PROCESS.>>Rosemary: I ONLY HAVE LIKE A BUCK 30 LEFT AND LET’S SEE IF WE CAN DO IT. BECAUSE CHINA WASN’T THE ONLY ISSUE. I JUST WANT TO DO ONE QUICK GO AROUND ON THE ISSUE OF VENEZUELA. CANADA HAD A PRETTY CLEAR POSITION WITH THE UNITED STATES AND SOME OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD TODAY AROUND THE SELF-ENDORSED LEADER, BUT THE N.D.P. HAD A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW AND IT WAS MANIFESTED IN A NUMBER OF WAYS TODAY. HERE’S THE NEW N.D.P. CANDIDATE, SVEND ROBINSON.>>IT IS SHAMEFUL THAT THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS LINING UP WITH DONALD TRUMP, WITH THE AUTHORITARIAN THUG PRESIDENT OF BRAZIL AND IS, IN FACT, RECOGNISING A COUP.>>Rosemary: OKAY, VERY QUICKLY — SO JAGMEET SINGH’S POSITION, NOT EXACTLY AS EXTREME AS THAT, BUT CERTAINLY NOT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT’S POSITION IS. AND NIKI ASHTON, FAIRLY OUT THERE AS WELL AND JUST A QUICK GO AROUND ON WHAT YOU THINK OF THE STRATEGY. CHANTAL?>>I WAS CURIOUS TO SEE THAT THE CANDIDATES AND M.P.s NOW SPEAK BEFORE THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS CRITIC OR THE LEADER ON A MAJOR FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE. AND I DO NOTE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM SINGH AND THOSE STATEMENTS THAT WE JUST HEARD. AND TO ME THAT SUGGESTS THAT MAYBE THE POSITION WITHIN THE CAUCUS THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM SVEND ROBINSON IS NOT AS UNANIMOUS OR AS STRONG AS WHAT HE EXPRESSED.>>Andrew: ANDREW?>>IT MAY BE LEADERSHIP POLITICS ALREADY REARING ITS HEAD IN THE N.D.P. RANKS. IT’S POLICY THAT YOU’VE GOT PEOPLE ON THE FAR LEFT OF THE N.D.P. WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SOFT ON THE CHAVEZ REGIME AND NOW THE MADURO REGIME IN VENEZUELA WHICH IS A DICTATORSHIP AND A KLEPTOCRACY AND REJECTED BY MILLIONS OF VENEZUELANS. LOOK, NOBODY LIKES TO LINE UP WITH DONALD TRUMP. NINE OR 10 OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ORGINISATION OF AMERICAN STATES AND THE LIMA GROUP WHICH IS A PRO-DEMOCRACY GROUP IN SOUTH AMERICA THAT WE ARE PART OF AND THAT WE’RE TRYING TO SUPPORT — THIS ISN’T LINING UP WITH DONALD TRUMP, THIS IS LINING UP WITH THE PRO-DEMOCRACY FORCES IN THAT REGION.>>Rosemary: ERIC QUICKLY.>>YEAH, NOT JUST IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, GERMANY AS WELL RECOGNISING THAT NEW LEADER. AND I THINK THAT IT EXPOSES TWO THINGS. ONE, THE DIVIDES STILL IN THE N.D.P. BETWEEN THE FURTHER LEFT FLANK AND MAYBE THE MORE CENTRIST FLANK. AND ALSO JUST THE WEAKEST OF THE LEADERSHIP AND THE CAUCUS, THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT LEADERSHIP THAT THEY CAN’T GET A SINGLE MESSAGE OUT. AND WERE NOT REALLY ABLE TO PUT ANYBODY OUT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA WHO COULD EXPRESS THE PARTY’S ACTUAL POSITION ON THIS FILE.>>Rosemary: AND SINGH DIDN’T BROTHER TO DO IT HIMSELF IN FRONT THE CAMERA. OKAY, THANKS, EVERYBODY. BEFORE WE GO, SUBSCRIBE TO “AT ISSUE” THE PODCAST. EXTRA CONTENT THIS WEEK. WE’RE LOOKING AHEAD TO THE UPCOMING SESSION OF PARLIAMENT, LAST ONE BEFORE THE ELECTION PROBABLY. LOOK FOR IT IN iTUNES AND ANY PODCAST APP. cbcnews.ca/thenational.>>Ian: STRAIGHT AHEAD ON “THE NATIONAL”… A SOLUTION FOR THOSE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS. WHY THIS AUTHOR WANTS HIS STORIES TO PUT YOU TO SLEEP.>>IT’S RELAXING FOR THEM AND IT’S GETTING OUT OF THEIR HEAD AND OUT OF THEIR ANXIOUS THOUGHTS.>>Reporter: SHOULD IT BE BORING?>>I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S QUITE ABOUT BEING BORING SPECIFICALLY. (*) (*)>>HOW OFTEN DO WE PONDER THE DEPTH OF THE PRESENT MOMENT, THE ONE WE’RE IN? I MEAN, HOW OFTEN DO WE REALLY FEEL WHAT’S HAPPENING WITHIN AND AROUND US?>>Ian: THE VELVETY TONES OF MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY IN A SLOW CIRCULAR STYLE UNTIL IDEALLY YOU DRIFT OFF. JUST ONE OF THE CELEBRITIES EMPLOYED BY A CALIFORNIA SOFTWARE COMPANY TO READ YOU TO SLEEP. FOR $80 A YEAR. AND IN A SLEEP-DEPRIVED AGE, BUSINESS IS BOOMING. STRESS, DIET, ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND STARING AT SCREENS, THE NUMBER OF POWERFUL FORCES CONSPIRE TO KEEP US AWAKE AT NIGHT. AND TOO OFTEN THEY’RE WINNING. TONIGHT AS PART OF OUR CONTINUING SERIES ON SLEEP, NICK PURDON MEETS ONE OF THE CREATIVE MINDS WHO THINKS THAT HE HAS A CALM AND RELAXING FIX TO THE PROBLEM. (*)>>FAR IN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE TREES AND BEYOND THE ROOFS THERE WAS A NARROW GLIMPSE OF AN ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING MOUNTAIN.>>I LOVE IT, I LOVE THE TONE AND I LOVE THE SOFTNESS. TAKE YOUR TIME MORE. LIKE YOU CAN TOTALLY SLOW IT DOWN. THE WHOLE POINT IS TO BE SLOW AND FLOWING AND RHYTHMIC.>>Reporter: CHRIS ADVANSUN IS WORKING ON A BRAND-NEW STORY THAT HE HOPES THAT WILL REALLY PUT PEOPLE TO SLEEP. THAT’S WHAT HE DOES. CHRIS IS A SLEEP WRITER. HE’S ENLISTED ACTOR PAREEK TO READ TO HIM TO SEE IF IT WORKS.>>DRAPED WITH POWDER WHITE, A FRONTIER EARTH IS DESCENDING FROM THE LAND AND DISAPPEARING INTO THE FOG.>>Reporter: THE STORY IS CALLED “THE CLOUD MOUNTAIN.” NOT A LOT HAPPENS. AND THAT’S THE POINT. IT’S PART OF A NEW VEIN OF WRITING CALLED “SLOW LIT,” STORIES THAT PUT YOU UNDER.>>THE SKIP OF THE HEART THAT YOU FEEL IN RARE MOMENTS WHEN THE UNIVERSE SHOWS A FLICKER OF ITS FULLNESS. SIERRA TURNED OFF THE IGNITION. GO OUT OF THE CAR AND CLICK THE DOOR SHUT.>>[PHONE RINGING]>>Reporter: BUT WRITING SLEEP STORIES ISN’T EASY. IT TAKES WORK. AT THIS COMMUNAL WORKSPACE IN TORONTO IS WHERE CHRIS POLISHES HIS MANUSCRIPTS. I MEET HIM TO FIND OUT JUST HOW A SLEEP STORY WORKS.>>WE ALL REMEMBER BEING TOLD A BEDTIME STORY WHEN WE WERE KIDS TO FALL ASLEEP. AND THAT IDEA IS ANCIENT. WE PICKED UP ON THE IDEA TO WRITE STORIES SPECIFICALLY FOR A GROWN-UP AUDIENCE. SO WE KIND OF THINK OF IT AS BEDTIME STORIES FOR GROWNUPS.>>Reporter: WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE KEYS TO GOOD SLEEP STORIES?>>WE AVOID ANYTHING THAT WILL JAR THE ATTENTION OF THE LISTENER AND JOSTLE THEM AWAKE. SO IT’S KIND OF LIKE — IT’S A BALANCE. YOU WANT TO KIND OF HOOK THE ATTENTION OF THE LISTENER BUT I THINK OF HOLDING IT REALLY GENTLY. AND THE IDEA IS THAT THE EXPERIENCE IS AN UNWIND FOR THEM, IT’S RELAXING FOR THEM AND IT’S GETTING OUT OF THEIR HEAD AND OUT OF THEIR ANXIOUS THOUGHTS.>>Reporter: SHOULD IT BE BORING?>>I DON’T THINK THAT IT’S QUITE ABOUT BEING BORING SPECIFICALLY. I THINK THAT IT’S ABOUT NOT BEING TOO EXCITING.>>Reporter: I MEAN, WHAT IS THE GOAL ULTIMATELY OF THE SLEEP ARE?>>THE GOAL OF THE STORY IS TO GUIDE THE LISTENER TO SLEEP, TO REALLY KIND OF SOOTHE AND LULL THEM OFF TO A PEACEFUL SLEEP.>>Reporter: SO IS THERE AN ENDING THEN? DO THEY GET TO THE END?>>THE GOAL IS FOR THE LISTENER TO NOT GET TO THE END WHICH AS A WRITER OF STORIES IS A LITTLE STRANGE.>>Reporter: SO YOU PUT PEOPLE TO SLEEP FOR A LIVING?>>I PUT PEOPLE TO SLEEP FOR A LIVING, YES. NON-CHEMICALLY INDUCED SLEEP AND AN IMAGINATIVE JOURNEY THAT IS JUST BEAUTIFUL AND PEACEFUL.>>Reporter: OKAY. HOW ABOUT WE GIVE IT A TRY? I ASKED CHRIS IF HE WERE TO WRITE A SLEEP STORY ABOUT HIMSELF HOW WOULD IT GO?>>I WOULD THINK ABOUT A SITUATION AND SOME KIND OF SIMPLE JOURNEY AND JUST HAVE AN EXPERIENCE THAT MAYBE CONNECTS WITH NATURE. I THINK THAT I WOULD SET OFF ON A HIKE TO START MY OWN SLEEP STORY.>>Reporter: THAT IS ABOUT THE LEVEL OF DRAMA AND ACTION IN A TYPICAL SLEEP STORY. AND THE THING IS THAT CHRIS STARTED HIS CAREER AS A SCREENWRITER. YOU KNOW, CAR CHASES AND EXPLOSIONS.>>I CERTAINLY DIDN’T SET OUT TO WRITE STORIES TO PUT PEOPLE TO SLEEP. BUT I HAVE SORT OF FALLEN INTO IT AND I ADORE IT.>>Reporter: AND HE’S VERY GOOD AT IT TOO. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE DOWNLOADED CHRIS’ STORIES.>>AFTER LINGERING FOR A LONG WHILE, SIERRA CLIMBED BACK INTO HER CAR AND CONTINUED TOWARDS THE MOUNTAIN.>>Reporter: I GET IT — BY NOW I SHOULD BE ASLEEP. SO THEN HOW DOES A SLEEP STORY END?>>IN MANY OF THE STORIES THE END — THE RESOLUTION OF THE STORY IS THAT THE CHARACTER FALLS ASLEEP.>>Reporter: HOW DOES THE STORY THAT YOU’RE WORKING ON TODAY, HOW DOES IT END?>>YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO FIND OUT AND MAYBE YOU WON’T, YOU WILL NEVER FIND OUT, I DON’T KNOW.>>Reporter: I REALIZED THAT CHRIS AND I REALLY DON’T HAVE MUCH IN COMMON. YOU KNOW, I WANT PEOPLE TO GET TO THE END OF MY STORIES. IN FACT, I HOPE THAT YOU’RE STILL WITH ME. NICK PURDON, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.>>Ian: OUR SLEEP SERIES CONTINUES ON MONDAY NIGHT. WE’LL LOOK AT HOW MANY YOUNG CANADIANS AREN’T GETTING ENOUGH SLEEP. SEVERAL TEENAGERS SHARED THEIR STORIES WITH US. TAKE A LOOK…>>I HAD PROBLEMS WITH ALMOST FALLING ASLEEP IN CLASS. I’D BE LISTENING TO LIKE WHAT THEY WRITE UP ON THE BOARD AND I JUST FEEL MY HEAD DIP AND I’D SHOOT RIGHT BACK UP. IT WAS PRETTY BAD.>>LIKE YOUR BRAIN ISN’T AWAKE TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND THEN THEY CALL ON YOU AND YOU DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER. AND THEN YOU JUST KIND OF FREEZE.>>SOMETIMES I DON’T EVEN GO, LIKE, I WILL FAKE SICK AND I’LL STAY IN BED ALL DAY. I DON’T FUNCTION PROPERLY AND I DON’T DO ANYTHING IN CLASS. I FALL ASLEEP AND I SNAP AT PEOPLE. IT’S NOT GOOD.>>Ian: IN THE MEANTIME IF YOU MISSED ANY OF OUR STORIES THIS WEEK YOU CAN FIND OUR SERIES ON OUR YouTube PAGE. THAT’S AT “CBC THE NATIONAL.” WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH TONIGHT’S “MOMENT.”>>Andrew: WHEN WILL GUTHRO HEARD BRYAN ADAMS WAS PLAYING IN HALIFAX HE DECIDED TO TAKE A CHANCE. HAVING LEARNED HOW TO PLAY “SUMMER OF 69” YEARS AGO BRUSHED UP ON THE CHORDS AND PUT TOGETHER A BRISTOL BOARD SIGN THAT READ “BRYAN, CAN I PLAY GUITAR ON SUMMER OF 69”? WELL, BRYAN ADAMS SAW THE SIGN AND INVITED GUTHRO UP TO PLAY. SO NATURALLY WE WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THAT WAS LIKE, AND SO WE CAUGHT UP WITH HIM — GUTHRO, THAT IS, AND THAT IS OUR “MOMENT.” (*) (singing).>>I WENT YOU UP TO THE FRONT WITH THE SIGN AND HE READ IT. AND I SAID BRYAN, CAN I PLEASE PLAY GUITAR ON “SUMMER OF 6”? AND THIS IS FINE, I GOT A CHANCE TO RAP WITH BRYAN ADAMS, THAT WAS AMAZING. AND AT THE END OF THE SONG I AM ON STAGE SHAKING BRYAN ADAM’S HAND AND GETTING READY TO PLAY “SUMMER OF 69”. I STARTED PLAYING GUITAR ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO AND IT WAS ONE OF THE EARLY SONGS THAT I LEARNED AND I WAS JUST INCREDULOUS. IT WAS SO SURREAL. I WASN’T EVEN THINKING — I GOT ON AUTO PILOT TO REMEMBER THE CHORDS. IT BECAME SO COMFORTABLE AFTER A FEW MINUTES. THE BAND AND BRYAN WERE SO GRACIOUS AND THEY MADE SURE THAT IT WAS SO MUCH FUN FOR ME UP THERE. * ONE OF THE BEST DAYS OF MY LIFE *>>Ian: SO I HAVE WATCHED BRYAN ADAMS LOTS OF TIMES IN CONCERT AND HE’S TERRIFIC. HE OFTEN BRINGS SOMEONE UP THERE. I DIDN’T KNOW THAT YOU NEEDED A SIGN THOUGH TO IMPROVE YOUR CHANCES. BUT LET ME STOP TALKING BECAUSE ANDREW WANTS TO SHARE A WEIRD ANXIETY.>>Andrew: IT’S NOT WEIRD. I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT WHEN I WATCHED THAT — BECAUSE I SOMETIMES HAVE THE SAME SORT OF FANTASY IS THAT I’M GOING TO GET UP THERE, AND I KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE SONG, BUT THE PERFORMER WANTS TO PLAY IN A DIFFERENT KEY THAN I KNOW IT AND THEN WHAT?>>Ian: ALMOST AS ODD AS THE PILLOW THING.>>Andrew: MUSICIANS WOULD UNDERSTAND. ANYWAY…>>Rosemary: YOU GUYS SHOULD JUST KEEP TALKING BECAUSE I’M FALLING ASLEEP HERE. ONE OF THOSE SLEEP STORIES. THANK YOU FOR SHARING! THAT’S “THE NATIONAL” FOR JANUARY 24th. GOODNIGHT.>>Andrew: GOODNIGHT.>>Ian: GOODNIGHT.

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