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The issue with EOS governance – Interview with EOS New York's Kevin Rose

Oh welcome the daily exchange I'm here with Kevin Rose from East New York we're talking everything about else block production we'll see you guys right after this welcome back guys we're here with Kevin Rose the co-founder of Eos New York a blog producer of your Twitter handle yes New York welcome Kevin to the show thanks for having me ready ready ready to go background really important there are 21 plot producers in New York yes New York is one of the coveted yes block producers through consensus and obviously all the votes we're gonna talk about that the u.s. governance right now you've put some incredible models and proposals together and can you tell us just I with but how tells the story of New York and how it came to be yeah so it has been the most fantastic thing I have ever been a part of professionally and I throw that last word in there because I would never want my wife and daughter to feel like it wasn't that but we are an independent self-funded block producer and it all it all started for me getting into cryptocurrency very late compared to a lot of people you meet they would consider themselves veterans I was looking into it in 2017 and I came across the the eos AIA white paper and it was the first time I got excited because I I have a background of marketing communications and user experience design and things like that and I thought this is something that we could use potentially and there was something that stuck out at to me in the paper which was there would be this block producer the validator the network and they would need a campaign now being a marketing communications professional I I understood the scope of what that challenge would entail having to communicate to an unknown body around the world and multiple languages and having no feedback from them except for the votes that cast on Shane and so we waited months and months and months like where are these block producers and finally my co-founder and I said let's sort of be the change you want to see in the world let's do it and so he was on a phone call in the recovery room after my was born that he and I decided to do this to do us New York and and here we are we are one of maybe two block producers that have had uninterrupted block production in the top 21 since launch and we're very proud of that it's incredible absolutely love it I love it still funded you know I guess being an entrepreneur as well I know the challenge of the struggle and so much respect given to you and your co-founder thank you massively block reduces obviously uh sort of cooperatives of companies and they campaign for votes that are tallied every 60 seconds so you know you're constantly trying to ensure that your we could I could have lost my job I mean I I hope not but I could have lost my job from the time that I've walked in this building and that's to every block producer there's a level of hyper accountability there that never goes away okay one vote equals a sir one else equals one vote you can vote but you cannot vote for thirty different producers correct so it's kind of thirty votes in some way you could potentially with that now some people are saying that because block which is receive rewards in EOS that their voting power is continuously growing is this this this this that even saying petition is unfair you know can you sort of comment on that and set that straight you know it's it certainly looks like that when you think of how that would work but when you actually look at the numbers it's not like that at all so being speaking for us New York myself being a self funded block producer we need to fund operations this is how we fund operations through through our block rewards so it's also when you look at the total amount of votes that are to the top twenty one versus the amount of tokens at the the top block producer actually makes so right now the top block producer has about a hundred and twelve million euros staked to them as a vote and so far they have made less than two hundred thousand yes as a result of their position so in the scheme of things their personal stake as a result of their block production activities is negligible compared to the total amounts of votes total amount of votes enter cash and and most AOS that is better bla bla produced a wit is that good well there are two there are two ways that it's earned there's a vote pay and block pay so vote pay is 75% of all the funds that you make and that is just a result of the distribution of votes and then block pay only goes to the top 21 which is which is a buffer that is very helpful in funding operations it allows us to expand it allows us to increase the value that we bring to the network and therefore continue to campaign and you know and so on and so forth so every there also so there's 21 and then there are the standby block produces and they're always there to you know what is their purpose what do you see is the purpose of a standby block producer well block producer or standby block producer the purpose is that all of them have a production ready infrastructure so it's meant to be like this is a decentralized application platform and so we are serving end users of depths and we need to provide consistent user experience so uninterrupted service so if something were to happen to a top-20 and block producer or the voting changes all of those standbys are they need to have redundant setups so it's just seamless and if you state your EOS I can how long does it take to change a vote because that's obviously massive right that's that's how that's your reputation it's constantly there what's that what's are the timings like how sensitive is this 60 seconds Wow yeah so you have half second block time then about three minutes of last irreversible block and then every 60 seconds the schedule which is the order in which block producers know that they're gonna produce blocks in groups of 12 changes based on the tally of those votes okay now last year we had some you had a story around Wahby potentially a leaked ledger of votes I think Joe we've got an image of this and you know what potentially might be happening is that they're swapping votes and those kind of things this is you know might be an issue but you know what's your what's your sort of view on on on exchanges and and and then you know voting for themselves I guess to some extent with with being a producer yeah well I think it's important to so exchanges are not currently equipped to offer the proper access to the utility that the eos token provides so the eos token actually affords you distributed resources on the network it's processing power bandwidth for the size of the transaction and ram you can't get those things through exchanges so if you're if you're looking to trade the token or you're just holding it as some kind of bearer instrument or anything like that you know maybe the exchange is fine for you but as the the value of the decentralized applications increases people are gonna find that they may they may want to use one of these gaps that are built and they will not be able to exist unchanged so exchanges so i'm i'm hoping that we see tokens flow to private wallets where we're actually using this the whole point of this technology is something that we use with regard to the actual allegations you know we're not included in that chart and of the you know we're looking at a graph here that we'll look at later where are there are over 70 there are over 70 paid positions on us we are one of them and we are responsible for ourselves we we look at that and say you know we're we're we're not here to evaluate this evidence and we are going to do what we think we need to do to be a good block producer a good provider a good steward in the network so it's that's that's what we do that's awesome yeah I guess let's talk about the now the governance of Eos because I think this is where a lot of people are like you know concerned and we're gonna set this record straight as well is sort of at the start you know what do you think the main problems are with the EOS governance to this mismanaged expectations right so let's take let's take a random example there was vote-buying headlines first of all you know everybody get your tin tin foil hat put that on for a second the crypto media loves to criticize yes so the vote-buying allegations that came out which weren't allegations its you know exactly what was happening but it was the expectation that was set at launch that that was not allowed that caused the the dramatic reaction if you were to look at another delegated proof mistake type system in Tron for example that's par for the course there are no headlines about how that is bad although there are there are you know if you look at Liske and you look at arc and you look at the cartelization of validators and the way that they pool resources and have these voter kickbacks and create those systems it doesn't seem to really work out well every this isn't something that US New York participates in but it was that expectation that was said at the beginning that made it such a negative headline leaders and it was the it was all these layers of governance that we put on top of what the governance actually is at a protocol level in it yes so what do I mean by that governance in its it's like Hot Topic now you're watching a prominent aetherium commentators developers talk about it it is just a method to make decisions it's a mechanism to make decisions for a group and at the basic level in Bitcoin that is proof-of-work that's how you're making decisions on the protocol right the issue there is that the stakeholder the Bitcoin holder is not necessarily the same as the network validator the actual decision-maker for the protocol in fact one isn't really accountable to the other in any direct sense so in delegate a proof of state you have this unification of both the stakeholder and their the the network validator the block producer they can directly influence the actual rankings that you see the top 21 are the minute snapshot that expresses the explicit direct will of the token holders and period that is enforced by the software there's no question about it now you might disagree with the result of that system you might say I don't like that block producer or I like that one and I and I like that one but this they're not high enough but that is in effect the basic system of governance that use is operating on delegated proof of stake the problem is that we try to layer additional things on top of that and treat it as if they were protocol enforced way to the governance and I'm speaking specifically about dispute resolution we heard about freezing accounts we heard about all these things that we tried to do that frankly nobody was was really prepared to do us New York was there when it happened we were on the the the the calls where this was discussed and we have since grown to understand that these additional layers can affect pockets of Leo's token holders where they prefer to opt into that sort of thing where a solution is built for them via the very robust features the EO software but otherwise the protocol layer is delegate a proof of stake if we want to change that we need to change the where what private keys are in the system contracts and how blocks are validated by the block producers etc that's so it's mismanagement of expectations the trying to layer on additional layers of governance next to what is essentially the protocol governance which just fine that has led us here to this day so that's what we're trying to work toward now it's better manage expectations so that we can iterate in evolve the platform moving forward that's great let's just get it out there so you've got just for everyone if you could just give a quick recap so there's with dispute resolution there's a calf yeah and can you just tell us quickly how that works and how does the head of the block but you just get involved with that sure it's bit unclear and just wanna set it straight well right now I would say that a calf is not working and most notably it would what what signals that to me is that a calf requested that private keys of an individual account be changed and the block producer said no and that happened on Christmas Day that that proposal it expired on Christmas Day rather the proposal was on chain it can be viewed it could it could have been viewed when it was proposed but what's happening is the the block producers are understanding or at least that the current set that there is a difference between the protocol layer and these additional layers that were tried and tested and they were found wanting unfortunately the the resources that were committed to developing them were not sufficient to build a scalable solution that could survive contact with the blockchain community it didn't survive contact as far as I'm concerned and so I'm working to try to educate the EOS community and learn from the use community at the same time about what they want so that we can have dispute resolution for peer-to-peer agreements on the EOS blockchain but not a system of dispute resolution that affects all accounts where network validators are responsible for enforcing the the products of now I just want to quickly clarify as well when you said the blockages said no quickly how do changes get made on the protocol or how do these things take place sure so the way that it works is a a block producer and it could be even someone outside of the top 21 makes a proposal anybody can propose anything at any time if you know the specific commands you need to do and then the there is a kind of a super accounts at us i/o and the privileges of that account can't be accessed except when 15 out of 21 block producers try to access it essentially so you need to have a super majority of the network validators two-thirds plus one because a 15 and a 21 have to vote and then that then that goes go as a hit okay so we're gonna talk about that we're gonna get into your proposals I think you know a refreshing Lacroix I look la label out we've got a website obviously we've looked at that as well but just wouldn't go back so some use manager expectations let's talk now about your proposal because this is really cool and can you walk us through you've got a new proposed User Agreement and can you sort of walk us through the solution that you see for the governance of yes sure and actually I just had a very I would say fun it was a fun conference call this morning with interested stakeholders in Chinese use community facilitated by the u.s. Alliance where we got on and discussed this this proposal which was an honor for me to to explain him so first of all it's called the you might have heard about the US Constitution mmm right well that word doesn't mean the same thing in every language and this is a global community and in that word can be very inflammatory in certain languages and cultures a declaration of moral authority things that like in the United States that word we under stand it deeply right because it is a part of the fabric of our society so we change it to user agreement because the the purpose of this document is to be the least controversial most simple attempt at setting the expectations of how yost decisions get made and I just wanna give a background cuz I was looking with Kevin before guys and just a level of extent which Kevin's gone to you've read it's you know some United Nations things dispute resolution like major major arbitration document can you give me two a background of where some of these ideas are come from because I think it's really important to understand the level of this proposal and I think it's very important that it's under something got out there so I am NOT a lawyer I just want to put that yeah yeah this is not investment advice now the so the the resulting failures of the implementation of the EO score arbitration forum spurred me to try to learn more about it and understanding international arbitration at a very high level so it started with learning about the the New York Convention which was agreement between 158 countries in 1958 or 59 where they said we will honor foreign arbitral awards like if you if you have international arbitration and you come into this country from another country and say you need to enforce this court system yeah we'll do that alright this is and the whole reason for arbitration and dispute resolved to spear resolution is it's basically because court systems around the world can't handle the the load of how much you know how many times there were disagreements I need to get solved alright so the there was a legal framework created to empower the people actually a party to the disagreement to solve it because who's more interested in solving a problem except the people that that are having the problem right so it led me down that path and and sort of all of my education in this in this space has been the result of something that I thought wasn't good enough and how we deserved more and and that it was also my job this is this is my job this is what I am paid to do and to think about every second of every day yes yeah and I think that's that that that factor the the sheer belief of Eos are protecting it for token holders and doing what's right for them I think I just I'm you know in or and and and just so much respect and appreciation of you doing that and and and and your organization and I could imagine the countless hours and deep dives that you are putting to others and with all your team as well so so I just wanted to to highlight that because it's really important I think everyone understands that so let's get into this user agreement proposal do you want to step us through some of the what are sort of the main parts well it's to highlight its to highlight how you met so everybody listening may have heard yose is positioned as a govern blockchain and based on my definition of what that means every blockchain is a governed blockchain Brendan bloomers said something I thought very smart the other day was that block chains are just voting machines they're just consensus machines there's different ways to arrive in a decision that's that's all governances to me so the the the purpose of this agreement is to highlight how we arrive at decisions on the US minute and and there's actually an additional thing that I think is very important this is a recent development on Yost which is the referendum the referenda system this is essentially a polling system where you can get the stake weighted opinion meaning people vote with their tokens on certain issues I'm just astounded a month ago less than a month ago might have been a month ago and this is different than then the then the feedback that we get which is rather ambiguous which is just votes on chain we don't know why votes change why they come in why they leave whatever we don't know excuse me but then we have the ability to now ask specific questions and for example one of the questions has to do with taking system fees that are gained from kind of some other stuff we don't need to go into that but putting that back out into circulating supply by a certain mechanism that is a question that is currently leading like it has 20 million tokens voting yes so it's great to see there's another proposal that says delete EKF it's actually it's rather poorly written but I agree with the intent of it and that has about 18 million tokens voted at it so this is this is real-time liquid democracy on specific issues and then watching how that plays out with block producers will be very interesting because every block producer is now gonna have their own personal threshold of that's enough votes for me to say I will do that vote for me and I will do that 25 million votes said yes well I'm 25 million votes away from being in a producer position yes I'll do it right so this is this is how it's going to play out in what's written in the current constitution is that it must hit 15 percent total token participation but when you think that there's nothing stopping anybody from voting anyway at any time and that a block producer can seize an opportunity to say those 25 million votes put them to me and I will do it that 15 percent threshold becomes completely meaningless so it's it's just going back to the first thing which was it was an attempt the original additional layers but it just set it set bad expectations and we're paying for it now but everything is still working great so the point of this that this agreement is is to clear the air so this is khuda Baksh that because right now just you know a lot of proposals for the eos blockchain we're gonna come back to the user agreement in the state but I think just to clarify that cuz I think everybody's hands in there a lot of proposals out there but what's stopping a little Bluff produces actioning them can tell us the dynamic and explain this because I think it's just what so it's certainly accountability right it's a-you know it's what I said earlier which was in 60 seconds you could job and it could be for any reasoning there and there there are large token holders that have enough to move the top 21 it's on chain there's no denying it I don't know what they think what they believe or what's that important to them except I do know that whatever we've done thus far is important so we will keep doing that right so I think it's the fear of the unknown lack of feedback loop which hopefully a referendum system addresses being able to ask direct questions but I mean that's the driving factor that's the driving factor it's the it's the competitive pressure of the token vote so maybe you know it within that I guess how how collaborative our block produces in working together sorry I know we're gonna come back to this user agreement my apology it's just I just want to just clarify and set the scenes I think this is really you know just to gain clarity yeah sure so block producers are essentially funded by inflation right 1% inflation every year is distributed to 80 or so notes and that's to go toward infrastructure and then anything else they can build we build a lot of stuff at us New York and a lot of times we come up with ideas in working with block producers and a lot of times block producers will get together and build something together now if you're if you've been in blockchain for a while you look at that you go I don't want these guys working together right this is this is this is some collusion Mary behavior okay I don't want this to happen but because we're funded by inflation there we are perfectly positioned to build that which cannot be monetized open-source software products that we do not need to worry about selling or turning into a business the business is that we provide value and reinforce our our campaign platform back to the token holders so there's there's this that we are the perfect position entity to build stuff that you can't sell right it's developer tooling it's end-user tools it's it's just running an extra API notes heads there and then the actual mechanism for voting is one token 30 votes right so if you're a block producer I'm gonna block producer and you and I collaborate on a project and someone finds value in it they can vote for both of us if it were only one token one block producer I can't work with you yes right we can't collaborate I got to go do my own thing because in the in what's beautiful about the current system is that your your success doesn't mean my failure you I mean if you go through the the social feeds of block producers you will see them celebrating the successes of other block producers yes like hey you need to look at what this group did it's fantastic we wrote a guide yesterday for software that to other block producers collaborated on and we wrote the guide for it and in the beginning we say thank you to these guys and we tag them because without them this wouldn't be possible and without 30 tokens for our thirty votes for one token that dynamic wouldn't be possible in my opinion okay let's go back to the User Agreement it could you lay out sort of you know that utopian or maybe not utopian but just you know what's that what's the if you're just some eight your proposal you know or debate block producers not be in block producers should not be involved in routinely bypassing download permissions checks on the walk chain which would mean having a CAF say I need you to change these private keys don't do that that that it undermines what we're trying to do to build a a censorship resistant decentralized application platform it creates a persistent state of uncertainty in how the how you expect the Valladares a network to operate that is essentially what it does and it does however explicitly outline block producers to be allowed to affect accounts for which they share permissions with so multi signature arrangements are much easier to create on us specifically the if you want to look this up anybody watching it's the eoseo permissions system you can create a private key that can be limited in scope to a single function or action right and and and that that is a very powerful thing and it sort of dovetails into the the second piece that we wrote right I don't know if you want to go into that but yeah okay I do so on aetherium DAPs are immutable value default and that it's very attractive there are certain use cases for the dab stone aetherium on us they are mutable by default they can be changed and if you're a software developer that would make perfect sense because nobody codes bug free software and the eos platform is updated constantly changes are made you need to optimize your code for resource consumption etc etcetera but to persist in a state of mutability isn't good so what we're proposing is a a phase of development be introduced to the the mindset of developers which is like you have your you do everything up to launch you launch and then you have this this these periods where you start to relinquish control of your smart contracts where you you raise the threshold to achieve a change in your smart contracts making it more difficult to do so unilaterally especially sensitive smart contracts like token contracts which would which govern the the actual tokens that are traded for things like many of the gambling gaps that have dividend tokens on on Yost's so it's important to get ahead of this it's important for the community to understand that when we're talking about governance we need to be building solutions that are helpful not debating weird political theories it's it's it's looking at smart contracts persisting in a state of mute immutability on iOS and not that not being successful that not being acceptable because we cannot expect users to to have to always trust a developer that that's not what we're doing here we are we are trying to eliminate the need for trust and moving in this direction I think does that and that's what we're trying to do is so that would be like overtime that would become less and less mutable and I guess almost frozen if it makes yeah well it's I mean it we view it as a progression and we're talking with a continuum of mutability over time yeah I'm so you might roll your eyes at this but I you know I try to come up with like a name for this concept and it's asymptotic immutability right so it's just the the concept of it it gets closer and closer and closer closer but it may never actually touch if you remember high school math class whichever one that was in that's where it where I got the name from but and this isn't to set anybody you know don't be alarmed right it's this is a this is a nascent technology and we're learning the ways that it can be best leverage and I think that these multi signature arrangements and utilizing the EOS IO permissions features is the best way to build a trust list framework on the EOS Network and and with your first proposal how do you see the the the other standby produces fitting into that I think you had had some some ideas around that as well right so how that would work is basically you could so so with that asymptotic immutability stuff and by the way you can just know out your keys to a contract on ES and it's immutable you can you can just do that right I don't think anybody wants to do that because then you can't update it and it's probably not good but you you you you take the the owner permission the owner key which is like the master key right and you share a multi signature arrangement with a block producer or a standby producer so I am the developer you are the block producer we have we have a token contract I say to update this token contract requires two keys you have one I have one yes each has a weight a value of one the threshold to update it is two and I can go to my users and say look I can't update this contract without the consent of one of the most trusted entities in the ecosystem and I know that I just said trying to build a trust this environment but at at the very bottom of this we are still 21 independent organizations that are validating transactions out to 80 you know standbys and we can just increase the threshold of difficulty to update things till it's reasonable that it's not going to get updated and unilaterally changed to negatively affect the end-user okay now within those I love those two two proposals by the way they're incredible I think it's really important I just want to ask how does this or block one play into this is you know Dan lamb or Brendon bloomer involved with this just wanna clarify that for everyone sure block one has been a great partner to the well and I want to clarify the word partner actually they have been available for feedback and are always available for feedback on what's going on on the EOS maenette and they have been releasing updates to the software on a weekly basis when they're when issues arise they are available to discuss and consult on what we are seeing the the it's it's a very symbiotic relationship and and and I think that that has been great now that said what's important for the us may net is that the the knowledge of the ESI of software needs to distribute over time out to the community right now it's it's no it's no secret that block one is the foremost expert on the software that they themselves built duh right but you have you have in many block chains core developer groups yes this is so it's not any different but we but the difference that one of the one of the stark differences in us is that we have twenty one certifiable experts in in the top twenty one all the way out to eighty and by the way that the actual ranking of a block producer just not necessarily denote their quality it's you know this is a obviously you're campaigning for votes and the number of votes you have may not necessarily reflect your technical contributions or skill certainly so these these small pockets of experts are growing and that's an important thing for the ecosystem is my point okay cos our block one raised four billion dollars through the year-long token stale and I think people lost in this question you know how are these funds going you know to use in the ongoing you know satire blockchain can you just clarify for us you know hey how that relationship works sure and this is just from an outsider looking in yes right I'm not authorized to speak on their behalf there's no right this is just claim no I think you're doing yes I Oh block one or any one it's just an outside view this is not like service one has great lawyers and I don't want them to know who I am but the the the money that they raised there's you know the four billion I don't know what I do know is that 1 billion of it has been delegated out to VC firms around the world to build on yoson eoseo and drive value back to the US main Emily I know that and Galaxy digital for example is a partner right here in the city and I'll give you an exclusive right here is that we're very happy to to partner with them on some events that we'll be throwing in New York City to activate the EOS community in Manhattan and establish met you know New York City as a pillar of development and a hub of activity so we're very excited to to announce that soon total exclusive on this show Wow there it is when were these events taking place that will come with the formal announcement we hope and test within the next within the next month awesome stuff so galaxy digital cos New York throwing the events down get in and out thicker than that you heard it first here guys so tells yet with so block one they've got a billion a vested broaden to VCS to build on the network but day to day you know the block reducers would you say they run he asked that iron yeah black one is entirely separate from the EOS main net so yo SiO is the open source software product that block one built yose is the public blockchain that is exchanged traded under the eos moniker and block one owns 100 million tokens because we used the snapshot to launch the network which was basically the the token balances at the end of the token distribution event the year long so industry distribution event but they have no formal authority over the way that Yost runs at all obviously we respect that they are a large token holder and that they are a an expert in the software and how do other chains play into this because I think that's it's important to you and just to give a bit of background for everyone you guys know you guys also work with up another chain as well and maybe if you just took it run through how that works sure so we are a a block producer and something that's important to understand about the economics of being a block producer on iOS is different than being a Bitcoin miner on on Bitcoin for example right so on Bitcoin you have this very elegant solution of a two week look back window where the difficulty to mining a block adjusts based on the aggregate hash power network essentially if miners drop out because they can't compete on costs others will be able to and the the total hash power required to solve a block reduces so that the the network doesn't halt to a stop yes right there is no such mechanism on us our the levers that we can push in buttons we can push a PO and all that our you know cutting projects and cutting staff that's unfortunately what it is so the as that there is no ability for the EOS block producer do hedge its risk against token price volatility and therefore we must do ah fie so yo Co is an open-source software product and it's very we're very careful about which block chains will will produce on right we we are a we're a block troops are on warbly which is an EO co base chain that is meant for thin tech decentralized applications that require kyc a ml for example so we're we're involved that's that's baked into getting an account you cannot get a worldly account if you do not go through Kos a ml process and once you do now FinTech taps can just come in and go well every user I interact with I know will be compliant with my regulatory needs alright so that's a very interesting use case so we see that as complementary to the US may net not not contradictory or competitive so we go there as well and and you know that and we learn and we bring back the solutions that we learn to the u.s. main net and vice-versa it's awesome stuff okay so let's talk a little bit about you know what's coming up next you know what and I think this is what's really important is the governance and enter the movement and these votes of blockages with these proposals what's gonna draw them forward and Wendie thing is gonna happen I think that so the referendum system which is like I said earlier of a means to get token holder sentiment on specific issues just launched and that will encourage block producers who very correctly fear taking risks into taking action right it's the general support because I think one of the issues that has you know plagued us all is the the lack of in certain ways tangible progress on these issues they persist since the main net launch we still are we have the same arguments about EKF in the u.s. telegram channels and I think everybody's just sick of it so that you know we want to be able to to iterate in move on whichever direction that is so 2020 19 is going to be the year of progress in Euro so it's going to be the year we you know we don't even talk about really this we talk a lot about the the politics of us which is which is great because it needs to be known we gotta cut through the BS it's that gets printed every day because honestly you have the people writing about I have no idea what they're talking about just come and ask one of the twenty one block reducers they'll be happy to tell you what's what's going on but the the rise of the decentralized application and the the the better user experiences that are coming down the pipe yes uh neos that's what's gonna happen in 2019 and this this underlying drama it goes away that's that's what I hope and we focus our attention on the value creators on the EOS blockchain which are the developers because eNOS is only as valuable as what we build on top of it it's that's what it is if nothing's being built on top of it what are we doing totally thank you James let's talk about us New York what's coming up next for your team you know and I think what's been what's interesting I want I would love you to talk about some of the projects you're working on sir and you've got some gold projects you've got some hardware wallet projects and maybe some other services the blog produces my offer in the future yeah tell me about that yes so we our view is that you know user experience is king and you'll you'll see this everywhere that these these decentralized applications we cannot hope that people will use them simply because they are decentralized they need to be as easy or easier than their centralized equivalent if an equivalent exists so this idea of a the expectation that the average user can take a 55 character string with your private key and and be able to manage that especially to because you get to any OS you have your owner key and you've your active key yes yeah we're yeah we are working on a lot we're very excited so we're launching a hardware wallet that we want to essentially be the easiest way for you to interact with with taps on us it's it's not right now it's very it's very difficult to to engage with a blockchain because it's private key management and the fact that you can't reset your password this is a big hurdle and we need to start to think of solutions of how this works and our first step at us New York is is making key management easy and putting it on a device that you carry with you and you you can you can be confident that it's secure and it's easy to use it requires no software to download you plug it in and go and you can and you can play your favorite Yost game or engage in any other just centralize that like your MetroCard in in New York City exactly exactly it's your ticket in so once you get on the Metro you can go anywhere in the city right so you have your Yost Metro you can go anywhere on the Bloch it awesome I really love to say you've got some consumer good some smart contracting is good to also talk about if you can a little bit but your custodianship service and just a little about that I think it is related to the Hobbit wallet as well yes this is just something I mean we're so we're playing around with ideas all the time because we we we've seen a lot in the community we're in a very good position a vantage point to say like where can we help and how do we make us any better so that's that's just one of the services where we're playing around with in our head but we're you know there when there are good developer projects and they need access to expertise with auditing security auditing of smart contracts or something we engage with them that way a lot of professional services like that yeah awesome last question New Year's Eve that's 12 o'clock ding the bell goes price of Bitcoin we ask everyone what do you think the price of people in u.s. dollars might be it is your way to answer any way you want while you do that I'm just gonna start off with a bit of New York the black and white cookie we're here I'm gonna sing them just it's it just reminds me you really think about that have something out good man all right man yeah I don't think I could take it all what's your what's your concept I hope that for every Bitcoin holder out there it's higher but I also hope that it is it stops being coupled with every single cryptocurrency blockchain token on earth because it's the driver of everything and that would be great if that could stop because it's it it perpetuates confusion is like the the actual project and its value or what it's doing is is completely overshadowed by volatility in Bitcoin please stop please stop Bitcoin go up and then stop thank you guys Kevin Rose EOS New York has joined us thank you so much for joining us okay get into that cookie oh yeah you can follow along with Kevin EOS New York obviously the web site yes New York io the Twitter handle EOS New York at EOS New York and see it there guys get into it check it out one of the most I guess what I you know incredible knowledgeable man when it comes to EOS and everything else and where it's going and I think is some amazing stuff thank you so much for joining us thank you for having the daily exchange cards do subscribe to follow along we always have more content and more things coming up for you we'll see you guys subscribe where's that everywhere all right you


  1. EOS Israel
    EOS Israel June 24, 2019

    This is Awesome! Expect a TON of new subscribers after this Video 😀

  2. MickeyL
    MickeyL June 24, 2019

    Good content.

  3. AndeyPewpew
    AndeyPewpew June 24, 2019

    he looks like an awesome dad

  4. Colin Talks Crypto
    Colin Talks Crypto June 24, 2019

    Great show! Thanks for the high quality, very educational and also entertaining video.

    I completely agree that all forms of governance should be on-chain and all other “ECAF” type governance if done at all should be opt-in on layer 2– not done on the base layer where it is unscalable.

  5. Ray Gonzalez
    Ray Gonzalez June 24, 2019

    Awesome video with great information! I subscribed! #eostothemoon

  6. jim jones
    jim jones June 24, 2019

    I actually learned more from this video about EOS then all the so called crypto youtubers that always put a spin because they have a agenda. Crypto is about experimenting so let this EOS grow

  7. Peter Domuzov
    Peter Domuzov June 24, 2019

    lol you guys might wanna edit around when the video cut off. You're live even tho you think you aren't.. Awesome interview tho.

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