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Re-imagining EOS Governance, Unpacking Dan Larimer's Ideas, and Major dApp Updates!



all right take two I think well I uh it says we're live take two here we are some welcome back to everything ers the longest-running us podcast I see it pulled up now it looks like it uh might have been up the entire time but anyway before we get started I do need to mention that nothing we say should be construed as anything more than our opinions please don't take what we're saying as legal financial tax professional investment or any other kind of advice you don't want to listen to guys on the internet or you will probably get rekt every ten days like remind the folks what they should do with the video you guys gotta smash the like button smash it right now because we want to get deep into governance in one week dan Larimer did two blog articles he's been talking a lot about the Pareto principle we're gonna unpack some of his thoughts and Rob has some interesting thoughts on his own that builds on top of it so we're not gonna get to it unless you smash those like buttons because we got to treat the YouTube algorithm right so that it treats us right we want to get the views we want to use community to know what's going on and speaking of what's going on we got a lot of DAP news starting off with POS who has been churning along and you were saying before I don't know if we were alive or not that you actually didn't realize the project was this far along in development is that right no like you always message me what's going on there because I don't follow it as it's interesting it's interesting to me but I don't follow it like you do that's like your your your baby right now it seems like you're always the first to know things and even the blog article we're going to get into that I'll share on the screen in a bit you're like one of the sources on there for like one of the first people to find like the actual link to the transaction on the what was at the kyln testament it was a jungle yeah in somebody else actually pulled it up in the telegram first and that's why I found it I forget who it was but I believe it was on the jungle test net so POS this was I think last week or maybe the week before actually published a contract under net POS token on the jungle test net that's the name of their account there and the contract itself is pretty complex it's three times the size of the Rex contract that exists in the u.s. maintenance just to give you some insight there but it looks like based on this transaction that Peters has actually sent a ring signet on or send a transaction using a ring signature on the jungle test net which is pretty exciting and a ring signature is basically just a way of obfuscating data about a transaction so that could be who's sending it who's receiving it the actual amount of tokens that you're sending all of that is sort of a hub the stated anonymized which is part of that underlying POS privacy tag so it's pretty exciting it seems like from this transaction that it's actually all working on the jungle test net right now which is just in time since they said they would do it before today which is the end of q2 2019 so those on the roadmap that they published a few months ago they when was the they've just released some code recently – I think we talked about it last week was it where the wallet code or something came out last week yeah I mean they did a wallet preview the code that came out was actually deploying it to the jungle test net so they deployed the actual contract over there but nobody can see that yet so we don't know what is actually in that contract code they're keeping it private at the moment but what was also cool something I made very public is that they announced a 50 million POS privacy project fund and essentially what this is is they're trying to build this privacy ecosystem on heõs and get people to integrate the POS token or integrate the POS privacy technology into their dabs or projects in some way and now they're opening up at this massive fund 50 million POS right now is close to two to two quarter or two and a half million dollars that they're gonna be dishing out the projects who are implementing POS and a good example of this if somebody like D mail who can go out and say hey right now all of the contents of a message that you send from one a u.s. account to the other are totally anonymous you know all of that is totally private but you can still see on chain for example than I sent a message to you Zack so with POS what we're thinking about is wouldn't it be cool if you could stamp an email message with a mail token and a POS token and then enable that entire process the entire message to be fully anonymous fully obfuscated so you can't tell who is messaging each other back and forth so just one of many cool examples that should come out of this project fun hey so someone just said hey Zack and there hey hey Rob hey Zack hey crypt that test yeah so I I think the the story I guess how they got the privacy fund like how it came about it was interesting because I don't remember what the date was the had to claim your tokens but basic they air-dropped was it one the one POS yeah we've one-to-one so the air dropped one-to-one POS on the eos main net but then you only had until late April you had to make a single transaction you had to just send send the POS token somewhere even if it was just a little piece of dust and that basically locked him into your wallet but even though is that easy there was a lot of people that didn't do that and it says here in the article that was it after the burnt wood after that burn basically they had they hadn't GRA more than they were expecting in terms of total supply which is why they're taking 50 million of the teams POS tokens and putting it out to this bounty which i think is very cool and really shows that you know they're incentivized enough already and they just want to grow this as you go system so if you're interested in this if you have a project that you're working on I know Dallas from Carmo was talking about integrating POS in some way you can email POS dot dev at Yandex comm all the details are in that medium article as well if you just search medium POS but now we got some other exciting news Wow one second I got a go ahead I this this works out to about 2.25 million dollars of POS I had today's value and I don't think privacy is a small niche within this marketplace of people wanting to solve problems within privacy that's actually more than I'm not sure what the WP the worker funds like on Talos they've been really good with funding a couple of projects word proof being one of them Bose chain also has a working fund going on I don't know if any of them are as big as this correct me if I'm wrong in the chat you might be I might be wrong here but 2.3 million dollars is it seems like it's more money than any of the other sister chains have been planning to deploy on there and whatever their equivalent of the worker proposal systems are so I think that's right actually big news in itself yeah I mean that's a good point it is a pretty significant chunk of money that they're dishing out and hopefully will go towards creating that you know privacy ecosystem on iOS and it's interesting to see both kind of being built we have this very public you know identity first ecosystem being built through voice and voice ID and then over here on the other side we have POS sort of going in the opposite direction and making everything totally private and untraceable so it's interesting to see Bo sort of being built and both going to be able to coexist on the same chain on us main net which is pretty exciting as well mr. anonymous Mel if you're watching leave us a message in the chat that would be awesome this speculation around him so another one of the projects that we followed on the show for a while they released a road map to the the dice road map what was the the biggest thing I'll try to get it on screen here but what was the biggest takeaways for you that kind of you excited has not kind of excited about what's coming with dice and what's yes it's doing different sorry sorry because I got my whole stack jumping around on three monitors so I apologizing I'm trying to keep up on the chat anyway come what what is dice doing on the roadmap which I'll get up on the screen in a second that not none of the other casinos are doing that makes it stand out to you and so the one thing that bit I'm most excited about I think is their new user onboarding so we've known from the very very beginning of the dice project that the dice team claims to have half a million daily active users on existing mobile apps and the plan from the very beginning has been okay they're gonna build a wallet which we've seen sort of preview screen shots of they're gonna have an easy onboarding system in order to get those people to play their existing games over into the dice and us ecosystems so that's exciting to me it says they're gonna keep working on the platform in preparation for new user onboarding in q3 of this year which is sometime in the next three months but we got all kinds of other stuff as well there's localization adding new languages and currencies you'll be able to earn interest on the platform in some way it's unclear how that will work more us-based third-party games and applications more benefits for dice holders who are staking those things that dice use account benefits and a lot more and then going into q4 they're trying to lower that bird entry focus really on the new users and hopefully that's when we'll see that wallet being released it says mobile wallet and q4 as well to be able to register just using your phone bring in traditional third-party developers more deposit methods and then of course and q4 of this year we'll get the road map for next year for 2020 so I think this is good especially in a time where there's a lot of uncertainty around us right now which we're gonna dive into very soon but uncertainty around us projects then comes as well so I think the more communication that these projects can do to really go out and say hey here's what we're working on at the moment and here's when it's coming out most importantly I think it's a great thing to just sort of keep that transparency going so I'm excited to see them deliver on that later this year that link confused me Rob I couldn't find that in my notes because it's a Zen Dex Zen desk calm they don't post a medium I think one of those censorship things didn't medium like shut down the accounts of like years bet yes days a while back I don't recall if it was them or somebody else but I believe it was it might have even made a couple blockburger shoes that got shut off a medium for whatever reason as though there's been some controversy there which was interesting but yeah they use it they could post on a Zendesk support forum which is pretty interesting but there is more news also from a big exchange that we have all been waiting for for a long time newest Phenix which is the decentralized US exchange from BitFenix finally has a launch date they say the beta testing is complete and then it should launch on July 25th so less than a month from today we should finally get us 10x out in the wild this decentralized exchange running on yeah so this I'm excited about and I think you know for me personally the biggest benefit that this should bring is more liquidity to yo staff tokens like dice and POS and so many others but what are you excited about for us the next set the the bit finex whenever they used to allow US citizens to use it had one of the best you eyes of any of the exchanges that that I used at the time so I make I've used es Phenix it has the exact same feel as a centralized exchange but it's non-custodial and decentralized and I think that what we could potentially see with this open source geospatial for free OS is I could see centralized exchanges being able to tap into the liquidity pool audio spin X and then es Phenix will collect the small fee on it potentially they haven't really announced their plans for that but I think there's it's going to be easy to programmatically tap into this decentralized exchange so that even in a centralized exchange could potentially take advantage of that liquidity that's what I think is gonna happen but I don't think they've officially said that or anything I'm just I guess being hopeful on that because it's something I've wanted to see since back in the etherium ICO boom whenever like ZRX and I think Khyber and a couple others we're all launching their decentralized exchanges and I had this like in envision this like shared liquidity pool amongst like centralized and on or in decentralized exchanges like what's stopping to decentralized exchanges from sharing liquidity pools if everything could be like if they're smart contracts can interact with each other somehow to connect buyers and sellers on all of those pools absolutely yeah I'm excited about it'll be interesting to see the launch and see if it competes with the finance decks in some way see how the volume is relative to ethan acts or FNX which is their etherium decentralized exchange which was big while ago I'm not sure how many users and volume they have now but it'll be very cool to see that ecosystem grow and of course always going to get more liquidity for all these years tokens well but they did say they have new features additional features coming well yeah at least this so we'll see if anyone hasn't checked out the I think it's yes vinick's comm I don't have it in front of me I don't think it's i/o but if anyone wants to check out es Phenix everyone's gonna see you when I'm on yep yes vinick's comm so anyone that wants to check out es Phenix that's gonna be coming out very soon so was July 25th yeah and speaking of other releases we also finally got the stable version this is no longer release candidate this is the official version of us I over j'en 1.8 which we're gonna dive into pretty heavily here and talk about how it relates to governance and so many of the other sort of concerns that people have about the es mania that I really want to break down today and talk about potential solutions for because I think there's been a lot of people talking about all these problems but not a whole lot of talk about solutions at least recently but with us IO 1.8 we finally got it released you can check out the github see everything that was there there are a lot of new features added the biggest one of course is the one that block one has been waiting for for voice which is that it will allow daps to pay for network resources on behalf of their users so what does that really mean essentially that means if I go out and I want to use voice or I want to use another DAP I can have an EOS wallet with zero CPU zero net stick to it and I can send transactions because the DAP will be paying for my CPU Annette for me so it's it's just another step and sort of abstracting that complexity away from the user and making the entire user experience a lot more like a traditional centralized at what would you think of the state history plugin change so I don't I haven't really talked to anyone about this but is it a big deal at the MongoDB plugin got deprecated I'm not sure honestly I hadn't read a ton into that and what the the specific change actually was but I did notice some people peter key especially are everything that move this whenever i yeah I was like didn't what was he saying about that I wasn't sure if he was like laughing about it or if he was upset about it I can't remember what he said yeah and I think he was glad that he hadn't already started doing a course on it or sort of learning yeah but it's it's interesting to see how that all unfold maybe we can get him on the next episode and have him break that down a little bit so I'm gonna pull up the blog article from year's New York on the roads 1.8 because there's a major consensus protocol upgrade so basically I think they outlined it in here but it's going to be the first iOS hard fork do you want to kind of explain what that means everyone because it's really not a scary term yeah so it's important to note that this is not a contentious hard fork where there are two groups of people are multiple groups of people that are disagreeing on the state of the chain and want to take it in totally separate directions this is what's called a coordinated hard fork we're essentially because there are major consensus changes there are major changes to the core yo si yo code that's being pushed out in 1.8 all of the VP's have to kind of get together and even all of the DAPs that are running full nodes and things like that have to get together and say okay we're gonna push it live it on this day at this time they're gonna run practice tests ahead of time to make sure that they they can all coordinate and reach each other effectively so it's been interesting to see you know BP emergency contacts sort of sheets get circled around so that everybody can be in communication even if something like telegram goes down but I'm looking forward to this and according to us New York it looks like we should get this what sometime by September is what they think they they gave a modest estimate they said at the bottom of the article for these reasons yes New York conservatively estimates three to six months from now 1.8 will be deployed so September is at the earliest and so beyond the being able to delegate resources from adapt to their users that's probably the biggest feature the general dev community is excited for but the general es community as a whole wants to see voice yeah I think that's what I'm personally waiting for and for anyone who are I guess doesn't remember I don't know how you can forget but we're waiting on 1.84 voice so I think we're do you think we're gonna get the beta as soon as 1.8 deployed onto the main that honestly I'm hoping them will get the beta on the test set because just like es New York mentions in their article right there that 1.8 has been successfully deployed on jungle and Kyle and test nets and of course you know there's no real money floating around them those tests net so it's a much sort of looser process of upgrading where you don't need everybody to come together at the exact same time so the whole upgrade was much easier but it is now possible because those networks are running 1.8 it's possible for block one to launch a beta on the test net whether they will do that or not sort of remains to be seen but I think that would be great if is ready to go if the beta is ready and they're just waiting on 1.8 why not go ahead and launch it now on the jungle or khylin or even both test nets and sort of let people play around with it let them get more feedback because I think ultimately this is going to be a product just like any social media site that's heavily driven and heavily shaped by user feedback so the more feedback they can get the better I'm hoping that they'll put it on the beta very soon on a test net and then when 1.8 is on the main net later this year they'll actually launch voice real whether they'll do that or not well you know only time will tell if that actually unfolds that way but that's my personal hope with it all did you see on the the road map so the road map kinda went under the radar because it was released as this strategic vision that I pulled up on the screen yeah it's really not I don't even know that I would call it a road map I think it's more of like a high-level goals like these are high-level things that they they sort of want to accomplish over the next decade but one of the things they mentioned in here somewhere is deploying their own test net I can't I don't I didn't plan to pull this up but they mentioned deploying their own test net do you think they would deploy their own test net just to basically get voice Kickstarter do you think they would want to use one of the public tests that's like Kyle in our jungle yeah it's possible and I think it could make sense for them to deploy their own just so that they can control the entire user experience you know they could already have accounts populated with the right resources for it I could have a you know an easy onboarding flow to just type in an account name and get started with the data right there but I don't know my hope is that whether they use a public testement or their own private test sent for voice that they knew it now on a test net so that people can start getting out there giving feedback and to Mark's point you know it doesn't seem like a lot of the content from the beta will be carried over to live but I don't think that's really a problem at all either you know people aren't generally going back months and months and months in signing old old Twitter post at the moment and if they know it's a beta they're still going to be posting elsewhere as well I it's kind of hard for me whenever we left b1 June was so fresh in my mind because we got to see that demo and we got to kind of play with it on the screen but I I want to just touch it and feel it because I'm still holding off my opinion on it because I haven't actually gotten to interact with it so I'd say out of everything we're gonna talk about today and the governance stuff is very important but I really really really I guess want to get the update on voice and get a beta out because m'g is everything and I feel like it's already been too long from June first like whenever we left b1 June like we are all excited thinking we were going to get to use voice and then three weeks later I've already forgotten about it and I want to you but but now that we're talking about it again it's reminding me like this is something I was really looking forward to three weeks ago and now it's I guess it feels further away but talking about 1.8 I guess it's closer than ever so right I was just yeah I think that's probably one of the reasons why people were a little bit disappointed about b1 June number one was because the live stream that they put out was a pre-recorded version with nobody in the crowd it felt very rehearsed obviously they've since taken down that version and put up the live version where we were all in the crowd cheering and you could really feel the energy and the reaction from the community but I think a lot of people were expecting with an event that was advertised as three hours long that we were gonna get more than a 20 or 30 minute presentation and as part of that presentation I think it could have benefited a lot if they had gone out and you know demoed voice onstage sort of very Apple ask where Brendon would be there i phone org and would be the rhythm iphone and then that you know the content is mirrored up on the big screen walking people through maybe the signup process or maybe you know making a post and then getting rewarded for it you know it is possible that maybe those those things aren't done and they're still sort of figuring out how that's all going to work and maybe that's what we haven't seen the baby yet but I do also want to sort of couch the statement with I think a lot of what be when did was actually very very good and I don't think there's anything they could have done more to even help the main that you know them saying they're gonna deploy it on main it is a huge deal that I don't think a lot of people fully grasped yet and probably won't grasp until it's actually out on the main net so I think when did a lot of things very very well but there definitely some lessons learned for next year for what they could do differently I just want to state I got some new worksheet my background rub oh I like I said a lambo in the back on the food moon lander yeah Marco or not Marco Burnett told me to calm down I am calm man I'm I'm mister years perma bull Here I am super excited about voice I know it's coming I trust block one I trust Dan so and while on the subject of Dan why don't we get into his recent blog post he's made about decentralizing governance because it seems like every week people are complaining about the BP ratings talking about what we should do but no one's being or not no one there's a lot of people being thought leaders on the US New York being a big one but that that's kind of before this show Rob we kind of talked about what we wanted to talk about and Rob has been very adamant about getting these government governance issues front and center and in front of the es community because it's one thing to talk about it and bitch and moan but we actually want to put things in action and take some of Dan's ideas and kind of walk through how we could actually make it happen I think I probably worded how we're gonna do that wrong but uh yeah I want to start also by if you can pull up a couple tweets on my Twitter page I first started out this was yesterday in the polls still ongoing if you want to do this just at Finch if I on Twitter but I said if you've owned geo since the main mint launch are you more or less and bullish on it now with three options 52% saying more bullish 40% which I thought was pretty high was a bit shocked to see that say less bullish and 8% saying they don't own us but then I went on to say obviously I think a lot of the reason why people are less bullish is they have you know one of a few different concerns so I went on to ask what is your biggest concern with us right now is it governance with BP cartels inflation being at 5% instead of 1% is it account creation cost that you have to pay instead of getting an account for free like so many other chains or is it developer onboarding it's a pretty interesting results so far with the overwhelming majority 62% saying that their biggest concern was governance and before we dive into that I want to just mention the pretty simple solutions for the other three items for inflation obviously at 5% it seems like we have general consensus to reduce that to 1% and even a lot of the bps have even voted on reducing that inflation all the way down to 1% they were simply waiting on 1.8 to come out as well to give us an easy knob to adjust inflation to boom adjust it down to 1% so that I think will be solved this year it will go from 5% to 1% relatively non-controversial when it comes to account creation cost I think there are some interesting things we can do there and one thing I wanted to mention about 1.8 and sort of how all this ties in before we dive into everything in a lot of detail is that because we have 1.8 coming out and because it requires a coordinated hard fork it requires all the VP's to get together and basically update at the same time and sort of make sure this update goes through you know we don't have to do that 15 out of 21 vote for it it's a bunch of BP's all getting together and essentially forking the chain but all agreeing to fork and move to the new one I think we have an interesting opportunity here especially if 1.8 is not going to be out until September 2 maybe even December we have a really great opportunity to combine that hard Forks 41.8 with some kind of a major governance or even major chain overhaul where there are obviously a lot of issues that people are very concerned about that I think could be solved but could be solved much easier if they're solved out of the the current limitations or constraints of the existing chain and if you think about block chains you know it makes sense to some extent you launch a chain and then you sort of work within the constraints you've given yourself but if those constraints you've given yourself proved to be you know impossible to overcome because maybe you have a cartel manpower or maybe you know there's no way to increase the and supply dramatically to reduce account creation costs significantly to maybe pennies or fractions of a penny maybe we need a big overhaul and what better time to do a big overhaul that requires hard work during this one-point-eight hard fork when we already have to do it anyway why not combine it all so essentially to summarize before we dive in all these in detail what I'm sort of proposing here is I think we have a really really really interesting opportunity as a community to come together to agree whether you're in the east or the west and you're part of you know the top 21 bps or not I think we can all agree on maybe overhauls of different components of the system whether that be governance or from an inflation reduction or you know 10 Xing or hundred Xing the RAM supply in some kind of crazy way to dramatically reduce the count creation costs I think we have an opportunity to all agree on it now and potentially push it in in the 1.8 Update so that's my thoughts on that and what I kind of dive into it man you you have a way of words they rub I was getting really into that I gotta get myself back up on the screen here that's nice man yeah so I think you hit the nail on the head and it's kind of you're you're less inclined to vote if you feel like your vote doesn't matter doesn't count and that's kind of the issue with the the the cartels that are kind of happening and that what some people are saying is the centralization of power is that even if you have a significant amount of vos you never want to feel like like this is it's worth like what am I even voting for and that's kind of what we're trying to get away from and Dan's been speaking a lot on this thing called the Pareto principle is that a term that you were familiar with before he started bringing it up very frequently because I was not yeah I've been aware of it since the basically since we started running as a BP which basically talks about the distribution in a system like this where generally you know the top X percent we're gonna get the majority of the votes in a system like this it's kind of this you know inverse exponential curve I guess you could call it so I mean you you kind of want to walk through the article that Dan wrote or do you have more opinion you want to go kind of paragraph by paragraph because I think we really got to unpack this for some people who have heaven at a time to kind of dive in as deep as maybe you are I have yeah so let's start with governance I mean first off obviously the inflation one I think isn't relatively easy one to solve and can even argue it already has been solved it's already been agreed on it's just something that needs to be actually pushed and implemented in the system but with governance you know what if and these are these are very much what if statements this is not something that I'm saying hey we definitely need to do this or hey this is a concrete proposal but I've been thinking a lot lately in sort of what-if questions on what if we did this to the US mainland or what if we could all agree on this new system and with governance what if we really could do a dramatic overhaul to the governance system that benefits not only the whales that you know are really motivated by money in the current system but it also benefits the community and developers with way more decentralisation you know where we don't have this geographic centralization of now I think it's something like 17 or 16 under the top 21 VPS are located in China or sort of have the same votes in the top 21 which is which is a concern obviously if you look at other systems like Bitcoin into theory I'm there pretty much all in China as well but but it's something that I think if we can fix in a way by dramatically overhauling governance in some way that can be good and some of the sort of examples that Dan has put out I think are really interesting and worth giving a lot of time to it took me a while to really unpack a lot of what he was saying but in this first article talking about the centralizing in spite of the Pareto principle he really talks about adding more criteria to be elected as a BP so right now the one criteria to be elected as a blog producer is really just hey how many votes do you have from token holders but what if you could add other criteria that sort of decentralized that in a way because the theory that Dan is putting out is hey if there's not going to be one cartel or one group of people that can maximize and win on every single one of these criteria and as a result you'll end up with a more decentralized system so he proposed some pretty interesting things what if you give Ram vote weight on the US main it what if you could do stake time or stake based time based this what if you could make it so that the people who are staked the longest have the most voting power so that if you've been staking since May net launch you more voting power than somebody who just think yesterday for example what if you could reward non-voting users and actually pay people not to vote so if the whales in the system are ultimately just motivated by profit and not necessarily power in the system what if you could just pay them not to vote and then have the community sort of the individual minnows the smaller holders actually decide on the bps maybe you could have some kind of an electoral college or even incorporate other proof-of-work blockchains into this system so there are a lot of different ideas floating around obviously none of them have been you know really really sort of drilled into or sort of expanded on in any great detail but the overarching concept here is what if we could change governance what if we could all agree whales minnows everybody included East West included if we could all agree on a governance overhaul to add in more requirements or more criteria by which we rank VP's wouldn't that be a great thing for the centralization overall and I think it really would it would and it was so the thing whenever I saw all of these different concepts Stan had so basically it reminded me of something I only have seriously talked about a few weeks ago remember when I was talking like geography and comparing it to like sports with whenever you like in sports you have your divisions your conferences and then like the top two teams of each conference make the playoffs right and it kind of I was thinking geographically like you could have only like three or four bp's per geographic area in each geographic area it would be like a division or its own conference this is very similar but in a more I guess fleshed out way if you think of it like like having different divisions or different conferences and you can compete and whatever conference you want to and each like like the leaders of each conference or who produce blocks so instead of having let's say 21 like a top 21 bloc producers you would have like maybe a top five in one category top five and another category top five in another category but even after reading all of Dan's thoughts on here I I don't did he explicitly say if he thinks block producers should be able to compete in more than they could they would compete in all of them equally but I think the the point he was trying to make is that they have to have you can't be good at all of them so you can't have the most ears and the most ram or else you down the entire network for example right you can't have I I'm losing my train of thought here but he was making it so that it's impossible to be really good at all for them and then he had a follow-up article where he kind of gave other examples he was talking about like the best chess player the best swimmer the best runner but but that was more theoretical why I feel like that that really exactly and he said was gonna take a while for people to unpack all of that and I'm still currently unpacking it yeah it took me a while to unpack it to I you know I think a lot of people took it literally and we're going why would we have you know a lot of BP's racing and you know running next to each other on the track to determine the BP but really what he was trying to illustrate is hey get creative with the you know mechanisms with the metrics that we use to measure BP success and somebody has a good point in the chat how do you get 17 Chinese bp's to vote in a way they might not like though maybe but the clue here are the key here rather is that it would have to be a way to we all agree on that really does benefit everybody so that those 17 Chinese bps also like the system maybe it's something where we're paying them not to vote sort of like dan has suggested maybe it's something else entirely but it would definitely have to be something that the entire network agreed on before we could implement it in that one-point-eight hard for it I just see it as a really unique opportunity where you know we don't know when the next time we're gonna be doing the coordinated heart Fork is after it 1.8 so why not try to get some kind of a major governance change maybe a major Ram change whatever it might be try to get that sort of embedded in the same up they didn't do it all in one fell swoop with this hard work I'm trying to find this article I saw recently but I can't find it so I just kind of want to go back to I we ran through these different ideas Dan had and then I kind of want to ask in the live chat if people could kind of I I think we'll get spitballing I think this is what Dan was doing in telegram recently because he was just spitballing stuff and asking people like what two-player games there what did you see him doing that when he was asking like what two-player games there were that can't be like done algorithmically or something yeah I think he was looking for examples to include an article because he mentioned most of him in there like playing Starcraft again see other chess go all these different games in good play but the so anyway the RAM voting weight in particular makes a lot of sense to me because in a OS on the main that at least if you hold Ram that mean if you're holding it you could be speculating but the biggest Ram holder of all of the accounts is actually block 1 and it's because they plan to use Ram most people holding Ram right now are not necessarily speculating they're actually using the network and if you're using the network then you should have some sort of say and how the network is run so when talking about developers let's say the majority of their budget was in RAM which I'm not saying it is but then that's less capital that they have for es tokens that they could stake and then use for their resources and then also this is a more clear point here is something like the Rex man I think my blood sugar might be low guys I just want to stay here on the episode that I am type 1 diabetic and sometimes my blood sugar runs you and I'm not gonna die I just want to state like why I'm like kind of losing my train of thought here I have I probably do have I don't have my meter on me but I have a low blood sugar so no emergency guys but I'm apologizing I thought here but what it was was that the people using the network we're not benefiting the same as the people who weren't using the network so I think Rex was the example is if you're actually using your tokens for bandwidth because you're running ad app then you're not able to use Rex and kind of collect interest on it so over a long period of time you're going to have a smaller piece of the pie than the people who weren't using their tokens but we're just taking to Rex and slowly growing their stack maybe like 1 percent per year maybe absolutely and somebody is a good example also what about the vote must be you know a certain amount per continent you could have 4 in Asia 3 and Oceania 4 in Africa four in Europe three in North America 3 in South America and in each continent each VP has to sort of try to be in one of those spots that then ultimately forms the top two and one and I think that is a great example of one of many changes that we could potentially make in this one point eight arms fork to sort of overhaul government in a way that benefits everybody that everybody is more excited about even like we were talking about last week even if they the existing Chinese bp's just moved their infrastructure to other countries around the world i think that would do a lot for decentralisation and evan gave me $5 thank you here's $5 protected by his sneakers because he's not himself when it's sugar as well it's true I'm not sure I literally feel like I'm I feel fine it's just I lose my train of thought and that's why I was drinking this Arnold Palmer usually I'm drinking my diet energy drinks but this thing it barely has any carbs in it I thought it was full of sugar and it's like the the diet it's not that late sorry he's gonna hook you up with some goji berries you got you got to carry this one Rob I really don't want to make myself look any less sharp than I already have today I mean overall that's the general concept here that I'm kind of proposing is that what if we could make major changes to the system not just the changes that are already in 1.8 agreed on but what if we could make other major changes to improve the overall ecosystem that everybody could agree on that would also do or solve pretty dramatic problems I think if you look at account creation cost that's something that hasn't been talked about for a while but right now it's roughly 2 dollars and 50 cents I think it's 0.39 yoke's to make an account as of this moment right now and that to me seems like a system that probably cannot scale in the long term especially if voice on boards a hundred million users because you can imagine that two dollars and fifty cents right now if that stayed static for those hundred million new accounts I think that might actually be doable by block one that has this multi-billion dollar war chest but the problem with the RAM system is that over time as more and more of that ram is bought up the price goes up on what is basically an exponential curve with the bank or algorithm so it made a certain point be $25 to $35 $45 to create account which i think is probably not scalable especially when you look at other smart contract programming ecosystems but have three accounts and obviously that has performance you know trade-offs where you have three accounts versus non free account there are all kinds of things that go into it that are some some are sort of outside of my grasp on the technical side but I think this is an interesting opportunity overall whether it's a governance change that we implement whether it's an inflation change that we implement or even whether it's just 10 Xing the RAM supply to reduce that cost of creating an account from 250 all the way down to 25 cents some major changes like that I really think we have the opportunity to come together as a community and discuss over the next couple months and potentially agree upon to include in that one point updated as well so that's sort of the overarching proposal is that we have this unique opportunity to make dramatic changes to the system that would only be possible in a hard fork situation like this so I think in a previous episode we meant it was shortly after b1 June whenever it was announced that there would be a kyc involved to produce proof of a unique identity and I think we kind of hypothesized that what if there were two like ways of voting like one was stake weighted based on tokens as it currently is and then the other one was on the like one person one vote weight and how you could have different weights like the I don't think that they should be 50/50 because I think stake weighted vote is important because you own the most of the network you should have more of a say but do you remember talking about that and do you think a unique ID plate I don't think Dan mentioned unique ID at all in any of his solutions here but I think that's something that was that wasn't just us talking about that a few weeks ago how with with unique identity you could do some unique things to create a different type of voting within the estimating that was like a two point to do a two party system type thing yeah you can imagine it as a hybrid system where you know what accounts for the people who have the most money the people at the most tokens but it also accounts for the unique individuals that have maybe signed it for voice and a lot of people been talking hey maybe block one will allow voice users to sort of direct where they vote they are now 96 million yes that they have in their account and that adam has a good point in the chat he says don't forget liquid apps is the RAM no one seems to be using it and then there are a couple projects that are utilizing it now and I think a lot more behind the scenes but of course something like liquid apps with vram and V accounts really does solve a lot of those problems but it would be even better if we could reduce the cost even more on main net from people that don't necessarily want to use those solutions I kind of disagree with him I I know of a lot of projects that are working to implement vram if they haven't already got that behind-the-scenes look yeah so so just hold tight and if anyone missed it I'm gonna pull it up we just we made a release today but I didn't have a chance to read the blog yet but we released a case study on Karma's Ram costs and oh yeah this was incredible yeah let me let me pull this this is the the first instance where liquid Apps has actually come out and said hey here's the amount of money that they were paying weekly to run their DAP now by the way we've now made that cost something like hundred X lower than it was before so to actually see the dollar figures of the money that karma was saving by using the DEF network for you know data storage and I think it was just data storage and I even accounts in this case but they're sending an insane amount of money it's pretty cool yeah they went from one on one point four megabytes per week of main net RAM required to I don't see it here I think it was like four kilobytes that it went down to well the karma had nothing to do with this it was all kind of research done by the liquid apps team some some scripts to run and it was just kind of monitoring their usage and then coming up with how vram could solve their problems and we're looking to do more case studies like this so after this came out well I I don't want to say too much but it got a lot of people's attention let's just say that of people who are interested in saving money and RAM cost and and all of that and you mentioned earlier Rob about account creation there there's some other stuff we've talked about liquid accounts or these we used to call them V accounts those are gonna be coming out of kind of like a beta phase very soon too and we're not there are some implementations but there's a lot of stuff coming out of liquid app side I try not to to like chill it to everyone so I don't seem like a show but I'm not it is the it's going to change how that development is done I believe in my personal opinion that it is going to changed app development there is no solution that could do some of the things that people are able to do with that network and I'm almost quoting Ramon from investing with a difference and blah start who is doing the development and this is all public of the moonlighting project which is onboarding 700,000 users into the USIA ecosystem Wow and they've been pretty public about the fact that Ramon said I don't have it in front of me but he said it in the liquid apps channel that there is no other solution other than liquid apps that is able to solve some of their problems they were facing with moonlighting that's awesome I'll pull it up if I could have a second of Rob covering for me but yeah the most striking thing in the the Carmel article was just that they said it went from something like eight hundred dollars eight hundred seventy dollars in ram per week that they were spending for less than a dollar and that to me was like wow this is a no-brainer clearly solve some significant issues and you can imagine if karma had you know 10 or 100 times as many users it would get to a point if they didn't use VMware it was really unsustainable from a cost perspective so very cool to see a solution like that actually implemented in working law sorry I'm I just want to be on the screen here I just want to kind of say I wasn't I felt like I was kind of upset there I wasn't upset I was just I'm just really passionate about liquid apps man I I'm really passionate about it yes I'm really passionate about when I'm passionate about something I kind of blood sugar I haven't had a chance to run upstairs and get food where are we at here this is this is definitely my most Awkward episode I've ever done I believe I I think I broke my record for most awkward now you're good that's the overarching concept at governance I think we can kind of move past that I think what I'd like to do is start a conversation in the community on what some of these things could be I'm gonna be talking to bps in the East as well to see maybe what changes they would like implemented just because I think with so many months to go until one point it actually gets pushed out it is such a good opportunity to implement other major changes in the system as well that solves some of these critical issues but if we continue you know speaking and developers speaking of people building on ESI oh it looks like block one is taking and it's some tightly interest in what developers are using to develop apps or gaps right now so block one is actually put out a developer serve survey that developers can take them and sending it out to different people the members of the site for us tech team got it we're take that survey I mean it really asks a couple simple questions I'll actually pull it up here just so I can read off the question so they want to know how do you obtain the use io software do you get it from github do you use a package manager like brew you download the source code and then compile it yourself do you use any third-party note OS plugins and have you used the state history plugin which I thought was interesting I'm considering the changes there in 1.8 as well but I it's always seen that's great it's always good to have hemp block one really sort of engage the developer community more I know they were doing this at the San Francisco hackathon that I was a part of sort of sitting people down asking them you know a lot of it was actually centered around mobile wallets at the time which I thought was pretty interesting but now they're coming back out and doing another survey which will hopefully guide the overall block one developer relationships program this had me excited I don't know if you have my screen up on your screen or out but the eoseo webinars there that's something that I heard some whispers of ab1 June and I was waiting for it and I didn't expect it to come out so soon so on July 10th at 8 a.m. till 10 a.m. Hong Kong time block 1 is hosting an intro to us i/o blockchain development by block 1 so this is going to be an awesome onboarding tool everyone's working on the same team here I mean us with the everything here's developer courses our goal was specifically to onboard new developers we wanted to be that link you sent people to if someone said hey I want to learn yo SIA where do I start we wanted to be that link that people would get and now it seems like block 1 I don't think this is going to be the only webinar that they do so this might be an ongoing thing so someone new into the ecosystem they could look forward to these so anyone who you know who may have asked you about getting started recently I would definitely let them know about the webinar I think webinars are going to be a bigger thing not with just block 1 but I want to start doing them with liquid apps I'm trying to kind of figure out how to go about doing that because I think it's just a great experience to get people o in a conference call basically where everyone can kind of interact and help each other and object computing this was trying to think of object computing just did one recently there they did a lot of core development work on a OS iOS contractors is like third-party contractors but Phil you know his last name as near Phil yeah Phil medicine here yeah he he held a seminar last week but I was away at the beach so I didn't get a chance to watch it did you happen to hear any feedback on that or anyone in the chat how about that did anyone sit in for that webinar with Phil no I didn't sit in either but interesting comment also from Daniel nevels in the chances can we set up scheduled governance discussions I think it's a great idea and it's something that we'll definitely look into more maybe we could have a scheduled discussion between east and west and bring in a bunch of VPS to really talk about this in detail I think that might be the only way to really move some of this forward and then use Phoenix saying he likes a sandbox concept where you know people you quantify a concept and show how it would play out before it actually gets implemented which i think is very cool too you could potentially utilize some of the tests that's for that as well couple people saying cut what's that my wife just brought me a Kit Kat come on camera oh nice saving you what's the slogan there give me a break give me a break this is my wife Emily she just saved my life with a KitKat bar and an iced tea all right anyway I'm just having fun you guys sorry there while you finish that KitKat I think a lot of people think it's a Snickers but he's got the give me a break not the hangry KitKat whatever it is we have some pretty exciting news as well and want to issue a congratulations to the team over it diffuse which sort of originated the US Canada but defused at i/o we easy to use name service we use it add email so many doubts are utilizing it now to quickly query and search the US blockchain and even do stuff in real time but they announced recently that they just raised three and a half million dollars in a seed funding round led by multi coin capital and which is very cool to see Intel capital so intel has a capital V CRM where they invest a new technology blockchain tech is something that they've been looking at recently and I've actually invested in defused as well so the huge congrats for the entire devious team keep keep going out there and smash it and make an awesome Tech it's a it's really made what we do at EOS name service possible so you guys deserve it that's a awesome and I'm sure we'll see more for them in the near future would you think a multi coin I haven't heard that in a while Myles Snyder's not with them anymore he hasn't been for a while yeah and he said he's I forget what I saw so he's just said he's just friends with him snow buddy wasn't associated with them so like they ever since he left multi coin they haven't like published any blogs about EOS that kind of fell silent so is really cool to see that multi coin hasn't forgotten about this Yoshiko system and they led the investment round so I thought that was pretty cool so shout out to Kyle Somani and multi Quinn Capital and the whole bunch there absolutely I think that might be all we have to discuss today is there anything else that you wanted to squeeze in here as we get to this hour mark of the show if anyone missed any developers especially if you missed the EO studio web release from yo studio that's that's really big if you want to get into using a web IDE Peter K demonstrated it on a video we released earlier this week you can find that on our Channel but I just wanted to shout es ooh yeah that's a really cool tool and some chance to play with it a little bit yesterday that's awesome and I noticed Chris from effect a eyes are you putting numbers in the chat there won't be a blank us giveaway today but we will do one on the next stream as well as pull up some that I have to send out so I'm already back where Chris is always here watching this I think effect they I just released something the other day they they had a video what was it let's give them a shout out do you remember it was Chris remind this in the chat I don't see what he says it a couple seconds once the delay goes through but ultimately I mean if you think about the current state of us right now I think if you look back to when the main at launch before this whole thing got set up we all had such incredibly high expectations and Brennan has even mentioned that before where you know it's almost impossible to deliver on the expectations the ears community because they want things now they want things quickly but if you really sit back and you look at how much we've accomplished the the issues that we've overcome with you know CPU congestion issues on the main that even increasing the RAM price gradually about the RAM price the RAM supply gradually over time there really is a lot that we've accomplished over the last year that I don't think we should let the current issues of governance and you know reducing inflation 5% to 1% cloud our view of all of the amazing things that the community has accomplished ultimately these things are gonna take time to work out just like the previous issues took time to work out but I am really confident that we can all come together as a community and make this network work for the better so that it is decentralized but all the parties involved are still getting what they want out of the system and if you didn't see that message from Brennan today in telegram clearly shows that they're still competent at the main net as well where somebody said something along the lines of hey Brendan what if you guys went out and you got the top hundred a list celebrities or the thousand most followed people on social media in the world and paid them to exclusively use voice and he responded with a winky face so it's clear that that influencer sort of marketing strategies can be a big part of their onboarding strategy for voice and voice alone may be something that you know brings a hundred million users to the main net whether they use liquid accounts or actual you know RAM based accounts on the main that remains to be seen but it's clear that B one is still back in the main and launching voice there as well so a lot of good things coming there are some issues we're gonna have to work out and there are always going to be issues that we have to work out but I'm confident based on what we've overcome in the past that we can overcome this as well so I'm excited about it it's in since Chris made me I don't know what he said that made me think of this but this week the sneak peek for the effect force demo the UI UX right here and it says on July 10th the very first decentralized Mechanical Turk platform effect force goes live on es so shout out to effect force this has been a project I obviously must have missed that date on because we'd have had in our notes but I can't wait to see what effect force does they keep onboarding more partners every time I see a new blog article it's like they're partnering with another major entity who has like name recognition outside of cryptocurrency so I'm excited to see what they're doing for their micro tasking I think they're just doing a lot of cool stuff I want to see what they're doing with karma with with I think that's an episode in itself Chris if you ever wouldn't want to stop in sometime on the everything yes podcast I think timing that up with this July 10th release might make a lot of sense absolutely and Chris says he wants to give away some EFX tokens done as well so maybe we can do that on that episode – and sort of include it all in one but uh I think that's probably for today is that you want to close this out with this out right here oh yeah this is this is a tough one for me guys thanks for sticking with me but uh until next time which will hopefully be very soon I'm dzeko Rob Finch and this is everything else go smash the like button leave it go use in the chat we'll see you next time

20 Comments

  1. Mark tipit
    Mark tipit July 2, 2019

    If a new great goverence method is developed that everyone likes except current BP's, it could lead to a contensious hard fork… don't you think?

  2. Florent
    Florent July 2, 2019

    ROB definitly you are good at explaining what's going on EOS; Smashing the Likes

  3. Jon Cursi
    Jon Cursi July 2, 2019

    Rob, can you help me understand why b1 wouldn’t back the mainnet? I’ve heard you mention a few times that you’re glad that they are, so I’d like to better understand why you believe they have the option not to

  4. J L
    J L July 2, 2019

    Here we go again mentioned in footage 35:00 about devide top 21 spread 5 continents arise with question potential those Chinese BP migrate along with it. I think it's a great idea, that could expise those jealousy and racists out of closets.

  5. Norwall Music
    Norwall Music July 2, 2019

    Astounded with how good your videos are. Keep up the crazy superb work my friend. 💗

  6. Alien Hunter
    Alien Hunter July 2, 2019

    There is an article claiming the US is looking into banning end to end encrypted messaging platform that can't be cracked. So, the peos messaging system thingy would be great.

  7. Szienz
    Szienz July 2, 2019

    For the longest EOS podcast, you are letting down your podcast subscribers 🙁
    YouTube has a lot more visual details, but when you just upload the soundtrack, one can still follow what you are saying via podcast channels while driving etc. When one needs images, links or whatever, you can always backtrack that on YouTube. So please, just upload the soundtrack as well when releasing something new.

  8. Nat
    Nat July 2, 2019

    Great episode guys.

  9. thomas whelan
    thomas whelan July 2, 2019

    I like Dans idea for governance and am out putting the hard hours on the track to be the fastest runner. Go Teos!

  10. Stephen Bowers
    Stephen Bowers July 2, 2019

    Despite the correction bitcoin is still set to see new highs in the next couple of days as we obviously are out of the dip. Persistence pays as we keep holding in anticipation of what lies ahead but even now, a whole bitcoin is already above the purchasing power of most people. The best option which i stumbled upon a few lately was trading by following the guide of a more experienced trader. I have before now held a certain amount of bitcoins while also trading but without good profit. Dennis Wirth is my preferred trader because since i started using his patterns and signals, i have made over 3 times my investment which amounts to about 5 btc already. To seek Dennis’s help, you can mail him on [email protected] or WhatsApp +1518 3519039 for inquiries into his system

  11. Lets Get Smarted
    Lets Get Smarted July 2, 2019

    Zack took a little too much acid before this episode started, just relax my guy and stop bringing attention to it, you're fine!

  12. Crypto Jones
    Crypto Jones July 2, 2019

    Governance sucks and 1st world countries that are use to democratic governments are not going for weighted governance where we explicitly say people with more money have more power. I think we need a unique identified voting account that you could link one or more accounts to it if you choose, but only the verified voter accounts can vote. That means you could link an eos voter account with just one eos or even a fraction of eos in it to this account and have 4 anonymous accounts or you could link all 5 accounts but you only get one vote. Instead of getting rid of the 4% inflation rate distribute it equally among all verified voter accounts as an incentive to KYC to create such an account.

  13. Bas van der Lans
    Bas van der Lans July 2, 2019

    Great show again guys!! Love the scheduled live format as all content is superfresh 🙌🦁!
    Keep on rocking 🌈

  14. Ernest Of Gaia
    Ernest Of Gaia July 2, 2019

    Funny how americans think there is no diversity within chinese culture

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