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Ex-Scientology Leader and Trans Icon Kate Bornstein on What It Takes to Survive


Yo me definiría como una persona no-binaria,
transfeminsta, BDSM, teñida y diésel. Soy difícil de definir. -¿Hay envoltorio para eso?
-No. Y me alegra que no lo haya. Soy Diana Tourjee
y estamos en East Harlem, Nueva York, para entrevistar a la escritora y artista Kate Bornstein en este episodio de Broadly Meets. Kate Bornstein es una figura importante del discurso de género contemporáneo. Icono de la cultura alternativa, saltó a la fama
en 1992 con su libro “Discriminación de género”, un manifiesto que desmontó la binaridad de género. Su historia es tan rica y compleja como sus ideas sobre identidad. Bornstein perteneció a la Iglesia de la Cienciología, donde fue un oficial de alto rango. En 2015 participó en la serie documental “Yo soy Cait”, de Caitlyn Jenner, desde donde su obra llegó al gran público. No es blanco o negro. Kate se alza contra el rechazo y anima a la gente a aceptar y asumir su lado freak. ¿Por qué participaste en “Yo soy Cait”? Fui a Los Ángeles para celebrar el Orgullo Trans, y vi algunas entrevistas de Caitlyn Jenner en televisión y en la revista “Vanity Fair”. Y me despertó mucha curiosidad. Ella estaba en el candelero y yo quería saber cómo era que te la gente te viera como un bicho raro. Y se lo pregunté a ella. Ella me dijo: “Por eso quiero hacer esta serie. Así podremos normalizar nuestra situación”. Yo le dije: “No se tendría que normalizar si no nos vieran como bichos raros”. Y ella me preguntó cómo lo afrontaba yo. “Es lo que soy. Para mí, es una sensación de libertad, con la que puedo jugar, y mientras no haga daño a nadie puedo hacer lo que me dé la gana”. Nos hicimos muy buenas amigas y, al cabo de un tiempo, cuando mi nombre sonaba para salir en la segunda temporada, ella me dijo: “No lo tengo claro, eres una persona muy polémica”. -Una agitadora.
-Sí. -Pero saliste en la segunda temporada.
-Pues sí. Yo no me considero mujer, sino “trans”. Soy una mujer transgénero. Y eso me ha traído problemas. -Yo soy como tú.
-Sí. Es mi nombre. Es lo que soy. Y tengo mucho afecto por mi extraña y peculiar familia transgénero. Salir en “Yo soy Cait” fue una de mis mejores experiencias, porque el mensaje de la serie era: “Vamos a llevarnos bien”. Pasé cuatro semanas en aquel autobús. Tú ya habías vivido muchas de aquellas tensiones, ¿no? Ya estabas en esa lucha desde hacía veinte años. -Sí.
-¿Cómo te metiste en la Cienciología? Yo no sabía quién era. Lo que yo era no tenía sentido. Yo sabía que no era un chico, y empecé a buscar una respuesta espiritual. Lo que me atrajo fue la concepción de la Cienciología sobre el ser espiritual. Ellos decían: “Tú no eres tu cuerpo, ni tu mente ni tu cerebro. Tú eres tu propia alma inmortal”. Ellos llaman “thetán” a ese espíritu. Yo pregunté: “¿Hay “thetanes” femeninos y masculinos?”
“Claro que no”. Y yo pensé: “Oh, esto tiene sentido”. En la Cienciología, nada más tenía sentido, pero aquello sí. -Estuviste allí doce años.
-Sí. Los primeros dos años fueron geniales, porque yo vivía a bordo de un barco muy grande. Me ascendieron a primer oficial; solo estaba por debajo del capitán del barco, y yo era la responsable de todo el puto barco. -Eras oficial de alto rango.
-Sí. Sí. ¿Por qué abandonaste la Cienciología? Por su fobia a los homosexuales y transexuales. Ellos no usaban esas palabras, pero sí que existía. -¿Intentaron cambiarte?
-Sí. Así que no te echaron, pero de alguna manera trataron de cambiarte. Uno cambia si quiere. Ellos me dieron a elegir: durante un tiempo, quisieron obligarme a dormir en el suelo de un almacén; quisieron prohibirme comer con los demás, y obligarme a esperar a que todos hubieran comido para poder comerme las sobras. Era eso o la excomulgación permanente. “Pues excomulgadme”. Aquello fue traumático. ¿Y adónde fuiste cuando no tenías nada? Ningún cienciólogo respetable tenía permitido hablar conmigo, ni siquiera mi hija de nueve años. -¿Su madre es una de ellos?
-Claro. ¿Y perdiste a tu familia? Perdí a mi familia, a mis amigos… Ten en cuenta que, en esa época, yo me odiaba a mí misma por ser trans y mi propósito era curarme. Cuando me liberé de todo aquello, me dije: “Un momento. Si aquello era jodido, quizá yo no esté jodida por querer ser mujer”. -Despertaste de un sueño de una década.
-Sí. Y en aquel entonces, nadie sabía lo que era la identidad de género o la orientación sexual. Mi psicóloga lo sabía y ella fue quien me abrió los ojos. Mi identidad de género es femenina, porque me siento mujer, pero mi orientación sexual es… Y ella me decía: “Dilo. Eres lesbiana”. Aquello fue fantástico. ¿Sabes algo de tu hija o tu mujer desde que dejaste la Iglesia de la Cienciología? Tienen terminantemente prohibido hablar conmigo. Si ellas quisieran saber de mí o leer algo de lo que he escrito, tendrían problemas con la Iglesia. Llega un momento en que comprendes que has vivido más de la mitad de tu vida, que la muerte acecha, y yo quería que mi hija supiera la verdad sobre mí. Por eso escribí mis memorias: “Un extraño y agradable peligro”. -¿Fue por tu hija?
-Sí. Ahora ya lo puedo decir. No llegó a emitirse en “Yo soy Cait”,
pero cuando publiqué mis memorias y Caitlyn se enteró de que mi hija estaba en la Iglesia y de que yo no podía recuperarla, Caitlyn me dijo: “Espera, ¿sabes dónde está?”. Yo le dije: “Sí, he oído que vive en Los Ángeles”. “¿Vive aquí?” “Sí”. “¿Y por qué no vas a verla?”. Yo le decía: “No, no es buena idea. En cuanto me vean, llamarán a la policía y me sacarán de allí”. “¿Y si yo estuviera contigo?” “¿Cómo?” -Ella es una defensora de las causas perdidas.
-Eso es verdad. Ya lo creo. Así que me acompañó a la Iglesia de la Cienciología y preguntamos por mi hija. -¿De veras?
-Más de uno se puso furioso. No llegamos a verla, pero… Al menos ahora sabe que la estoy buscando. Yo seguí adelante con mi transición, en gran parte porque no estaba siendo fiel a mí misma. Yo debía ser mujer. Y cuando eso no funcionó, todo se vino abajo. No había alternativa. Antes no existían términos como “no binario” o “intergénero” o “fluidez de género”. Eso no existía. Y era algo que quise mostrar en mi nuevo libro. El título es lo más. -¿Cuál es?
-Mi nuevo libro se llamará “Trans, por pura diversión”. -Buen título.
-¿A que sí? El libro solo tiene una norma, de la que estoy muy orgullosa. Es más un valor que una norma, pero yo lo escribo como norma: “No seas malvado. Mientras no seas malvado, sé lo que quieras para sobrevivir, para hacer que tu vida valga la pena”. Y se me ocurrió la idea de imprimir unas tarjetas que te libran del infierno, en las que se puede leer: “Haz lo que te dé la gana para seguir vivo, y haz lo que haga falta para que tu vida valga la pena si de esa forma eres fiel a ti mismo. No ofendas a nadie. Y si te mandan al infierno, dale esta tarjeta a Satanás y yo cumpliré tu condena.” -Y habré repartido unas 30.000 en total.
-Vaya. -Por suerte, soy masoquista.
-Claro. Será divertido.

100 Comments

  1. purewonka
    purewonka August 22, 2016

    This woman has legal recourse to see her child. Why does she just let Scientology win?

  2. Georgia Haslam
    Georgia Haslam August 25, 2016

    What a beautiful soul! I hope she reconnects with her daughter one day!

  3. circé machine
    circé machine August 25, 2016

    I am struck by how spiritual Kate Bornstein is in fact. Paradoxically, that card thing is definitely not something someone who's not interrested in spirituality would do.

  4. Cole Chick
    Cole Chick August 25, 2016

    a nonbinary icon, love her!

  5. Stormie Dawn
    Stormie Dawn August 29, 2016

    I absolutely adore her!!! shes amazing! love the tats and everything about her!!

  6. Destiny Hodge
    Destiny Hodge August 29, 2016

    she's so cool

  7. Mikey Sal
    Mikey Sal August 31, 2016

    Dear God….this poor soul. Wonder what fucked her up so badly.

  8. Ezraa Khaled
    Ezraa Khaled September 1, 2016

    Masse what?

  9. Danilo Alves
    Danilo Alves September 2, 2016

    Is that the first transgender woman interviewer on Broadly? Cause I want to see more.

  10. Jocosidades Nuestras
    Jocosidades Nuestras September 4, 2016

    I'm an attack helicopter Scientologist.

  11. coolbuddydude1
    coolbuddydude1 September 5, 2016

    Great a crazy person acting a new kind of crazy.

  12. Teresa Boze
    Teresa Boze October 8, 2016

    Good Lord, Kate, your energy sure hasn't slacked! Love You Madly! Keep bringing that stuff, My Heart. You saved me again. #stayfree is more than a maxipad

  13. Julian Namu
    Julian Namu October 20, 2016

    Kate is a pioneer and has personally inspired me to get out of hell free when I really needed it. She challenges the gender binary and sees the broader implications that gender oppression has on everyone (trans* and cis), instead of trying to "normalize" being transgender. I feel like she deserves a little bit more respect, at least from the interviewer, than being side-eyed, scrutinized, and othered by a young trans person.

  14. Kat Smith
    Kat Smith October 22, 2016

    her caitlin jenner impression got me weak

  15. Angie L
    Angie L October 28, 2016

    Bravo Kate for escaping a prison to the freedom of finding the true identity of who you are!

  16. SwolllenGoat
    SwolllenGoat November 3, 2016

    Ya,a man in a dress

    How iconic

  17. Meadow Rae
    Meadow Rae November 3, 2016

    Harm none, do what you will. I like it. 🙂

  18. khaleesi
    khaleesi November 28, 2016

    This bitch is fucking
    F A B U L O U S!!!!!

  19. Amalija
    Amalija December 7, 2016

    Thank you

  20. ladyblazette
    ladyblazette December 18, 2016

    what an inspiration

  21. vickie g
    vickie g January 6, 2017

    LMFAO the interviewer took a few xanax huh?

  22. Robin Rocha
    Robin Rocha January 6, 2017

    It's all about the soul. Your are not a freak, unless you enjoy calling yourself one. The outer body is just a shell. Be true to yourself always. This is from a 52 year old Catholic Italian, mother of two sons.

  23. Robin Rocha
    Robin Rocha January 6, 2017

    *You are

  24. Robin Rocha
    Robin Rocha January 6, 2017

    I can understand joining Scientology. Sounds good in the beginning, but once you get into it, not good. Glad you got out.

  25. Robin Rocha
    Robin Rocha January 6, 2017

    You are a very brave soul. Love and positive thoughts to you.

  26. Robin Rocha
    Robin Rocha January 6, 2017

    Just don't be mean…priceless.

  27. Wesley James
    Wesley James January 26, 2017

    this shit is fuckin retarded

  28. honestly dishonest
    honestly dishonest January 30, 2017

    This person is so badass.

  29. Mati Caro
    Mati Caro February 5, 2017

    Much love my beautiful tran lady!💕💕💕

  30. Cynthia R
    Cynthia R February 8, 2017

    Leah Remini should put her in her show! it would be awesome!!

  31. Castor DarkHeart
    Castor DarkHeart February 18, 2017

    I aspire to be her one day. Not female but fuck, I wanna be that comfortable with myself and be able to own who I am apologetically.

  32. Faith Lopez
    Faith Lopez February 20, 2017

    this is so warm ❤

  33. Julie Gilleland
    Julie Gilleland February 20, 2017

    OMG! I want to be her friend! AWESOME!!

  34. Jacquelyn Howard
    Jacquelyn Howard February 21, 2017

    a mentally ill freak…

  35. natasha ;
    natasha ; March 10, 2017

    Kate seems like such a charming soul, watching this piece warmed my heart.

  36. Chassidy Camp
    Chassidy Camp March 16, 2017

    So profound and freeing to realize that anyone should be allowed to be whatever gender, sex, and sexual orientation you want to be! And tragedy that society hasn't caught up. Looking forward to reading your new book! #Dontbemean!!

  37. Helcolina Plasticine
    Helcolina Plasticine March 23, 2017

    Damn she's cool.

  38. FR010ijsselmonde
    FR010ijsselmonde March 24, 2017

    I bet she had a huge Dick before the operating

  39. Nadia K
    Nadia K March 25, 2017

    DOCTOR WHO NECKLACE

  40. Neide Salgado Jorge
    Neide Salgado Jorge March 26, 2017

    BEST PERSON EVER

  41. No Name
    No Name March 27, 2017

    The interviewer looks like Evan Peters in drag.

  42. Sky Quill
    Sky Quill March 28, 2017

    I need to read this woman's books, holy shit. Also, the amount of views this has makes me sad.

  43. L 2234
    L 2234 April 17, 2017

    What the crossish necklace for?

  44. Ethel LaVain
    Ethel LaVain April 20, 2017

    I love that she Loves Dr Who!

  45. Spider Queen
    Spider Queen April 21, 2017

    I dunno, I think anyone looks boring compared to Kate Bornstein… The interviewer did a fine job. Also, they probably edited it to give Kate more screen time. An interviewer isn't supposed to be memorable.

  46. David Melgar
    David Melgar May 4, 2017

    I wonder if anyone's found her ex-wife and kid

  47. Annie Huckaby
    Annie Huckaby May 15, 2017

    Can Kate adopt me and be my grandmother?

  48. Annie Huckaby
    Annie Huckaby May 15, 2017

    I love people like this who are so ALIVE

  49. N. Odita
    N. Odita August 16, 2017

    Love that she has Tardises everywhere.

  50. Skittl3zMonst3r
    Skittl3zMonst3r August 20, 2017

    1:09 crying but, yearning

  51. Skittl3zMonst3r
    Skittl3zMonst3r August 20, 2017

    cries I want to meet her

  52. Essie decent
    Essie decent September 11, 2017

    As long as I'm not mean, I can do whatever the fuck I want.
    I love that.

  53. crystallinebeauty
    crystallinebeauty September 14, 2017

    I don't understand how not being allowed to see her daughter is legal. The Church of Scientology has that much power?

  54. Yegor
    Yegor September 19, 2017

    So bizarre

  55. Jean ette
    Jean ette September 28, 2017

    Leah remini please speak with Kate on your show! She has so many stories to share!

  56. weeniesupreme
    weeniesupreme October 5, 2017

    she's so fucking inspiring

  57. Page Jaycell
    Page Jaycell October 7, 2017

    Creepy man attempts womanhood.Gross.

  58. AquaArtistCat
    AquaArtistCat October 26, 2017

    I love her Doctor Who stuff! Also she is great.

  59. Maikeru
    Maikeru November 18, 2017

    (((Bornstein)))

  60. a girl named brett
    a girl named brett December 17, 2017

    #whovianlife

  61. Mark Paulson
    Mark Paulson December 17, 2017

    As an ex-Sea Org Member who was in for 25 years and who was born with the chromosome disorder "Klinefelters Syndrome" (and who is Fair Gamed by the Church 24/7/365), I found your video unbelievably refreshing! Watching your video gives me a better perspective about myself and how to handle Scientology and their religion for the masses bullcrap. Thanks Kate!

  62. David Reece
    David Reece January 5, 2018

    She’s on the Caitlin program. Didn’t know she was a Scientologist.

  63. Brianna Terese
    Brianna Terese January 10, 2018

    Listened to her on GWF podcast. Needed to see what she looked like (I always have to after I hear people talk, I’m visual lol) and OMG she’s so cute lol I love her style!! 😍

  64. Juarez
    Juarez January 11, 2018

    Just a dude in a dress. 🙄

  65. Truther Revolution
    Truther Revolution February 1, 2018

    How did he get out of Scientology?

  66. Truther Revolution
    Truther Revolution February 1, 2018

    He needs to find his daughter no matter what that cult says

  67. astra4nn
    astra4nn February 2, 2018

    I just read Kate's book. I was thinking that the interviewer was trying to allow Kate to talk, especially about her daughter who is in the Church of Scientology (not the best place!) . I wanted to hear what Kate was saying, so I thought the interviewer sitting back and allowing Kate to talk was good.

  68. Paul Bridgewater
    Paul Bridgewater February 13, 2018

    so it's okay for an OLD WHITE MAN to say "dyke" as long as he "wears make up"?…. FUCK OFF, satanic spawn of hell

  69. Paul Bridgewater
    Paul Bridgewater February 13, 2018

    beware the Marked Ones ……..

  70. Paul Bridgewater
    Paul Bridgewater February 13, 2018

    Ankh: symbol of Lucifer

  71. M R.
    M R. March 1, 2018

    amazing person, spirit!!!

  72. Pixy Perfect
    Pixy Perfect March 18, 2018

    Is that a Tardis necklace?

  73. michelle olsen
    michelle olsen March 22, 2018

    My husband is trans too, but like Bornstein, he does not identify as 1 gender, which is weirdly difficult for him. But like he says: "I'm not a man, I'm not a woman, I'm just myself" <3
    And Bornstein too cool- mix between Epfel Iris and Iggy Pop <3 😀 I'm so in awe of her courage and I am so sorry she has lost a child..

  74. ASHLEY KROLIKOWSKI
    ASHLEY KROLIKOWSKI April 3, 2018

    kate sounds like a real hoot. good for them.

  75. Joe Atomic
    Joe Atomic April 7, 2018

    I love them I want to meet them. They remind me of Carrie Fisher.

  76. Emma Cain
    Emma Cain May 10, 2018

    People like this make the trans community look bad …..

  77. bdebramo
    bdebramo May 25, 2018

    you think shes ex scientology but they programmed and sent her out

  78. rigel5
    rigel5 August 13, 2018

    Bet her/his/it's grandparents would be very proud of her/him/it.By god am I glad I don't have children that could turn into an f**ked-up freak like this.Go live in a slum in India.
    Then maybe you'll get sense and see what's really important in life.

  79. Jasmine Pina
    Jasmine Pina August 23, 2018

    😱

  80. Arnold Strong Numero Uno
    Arnold Strong Numero Uno September 9, 2018

    ✌🏾

  81. Lynn Beers
    Lynn Beers September 16, 2018

    I'm making myself a get out of hell card.

  82. Carolyn Nigro
    Carolyn Nigro October 12, 2018

    Interviewer reminds me of a trans Dexter

  83. SecondLifeDesigner
    SecondLifeDesigner October 13, 2018

    I love Kate Bornstein! I am not into a lot of things she is into but she has a great loving heart and wonderful personality.

  84. Benjamin Wood
    Benjamin Wood October 27, 2018

    There's a box for that. It's called mentally ill.

  85. Benjamin Wood
    Benjamin Wood October 27, 2018

    See this is the kind of trans person that I can respect. He accepts the fact that he is a freak instead of trying to force the rest of society to pretend he is normal.

  86. Em
    Em November 12, 2018

    What a great interview! Kate Bornstein is so fucking interesting, and now I'm going to go put all her books on my to-read list

  87. Chee Chalker
    Chee Chalker November 25, 2018

    I thought Kate left because Scientology thought she had exposed Hubbard’s identity to the Swiss bankers where Hubbard was stashing his millions.
    I’m disappointed that this interview implies Kate was kicked out for being gay/trans.

  88. Chee Chalker
    Chee Chalker November 25, 2018

    I love the sneer and the elevator eyed judgement of the interviewers. So catty

  89. MIYO. - Music
    MIYO. - Music December 23, 2018

    Broadly is really the best shit ever since Marx!

  90. Allister Hirschman
    Allister Hirschman December 24, 2018

    <3

  91. Laura Kramer
    Laura Kramer January 27, 2019

    I read one of her books a couple of years ago, Hello Cruel World, and that book probably saved my life.

  92. Lolthie's-Place
    Lolthie's-Place March 10, 2019

    i hope she got to talk to her daughter

  93. Princess Taboo
    Princess Taboo March 11, 2019

    If when Kate was in Scientology and she was okay with it because she didn't feel male or female, but simply a being, then why did she end up marrying a woman and fathering a child? She skipped right over that part. What made her decide to be a heterosexual male, marry and father a child?

  94. Nancy Padilla
    Nancy Padilla April 11, 2019

    The interviewer looks like the lead singer of BORNS lol. or just me?

  95. S Showgirl
    S Showgirl April 16, 2019

    love so mutch kate bornstein bless

  96. Amina Wijntje
    Amina Wijntje April 22, 2019

    Huge Personality; Such a beautiful sight to behold* An Angle on Earth..

  97. Francesca Bucci
    Francesca Bucci April 27, 2019

    Say it, you're a lesbian

  98. S Showgirl
    S Showgirl May 28, 2019

    i love you kate

  99. Somee Nicks
    Somee Nicks June 21, 2019

    SICK MIND. Do not dump this crap on children. SATANIC as all hell itself. Centuries of this is WELL known but never taught in churches anymore! Babylon.

  100. WISDOM KNOWLEDGE
    WISDOM KNOWLEDGE August 2, 2019

    Wicked sodommites like the Bible describes them Scientology wicked cult repent before u are bound to Hell for eternity

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